Nano-Weave Armor is bad for this game.

I prefer using Resist Shield and Nanoweave for the [Damage Reduction+HP] combo like in other games. It helps this old man survive a bit longer.

That said, I do not agree that it should be removed. All of the options are buffs. The other options just need tweaking to make them more appealing. If the Shield Cap was 1 second more, I would jump ship to it instead.

But, I must say that the boards are meant for discussion. Let us not make this personal, regardless of what you think of BuzzCut as a...well....human being. However Buzz, you can't just shout people down here. Please elaborate.

Bandwagoning on Buzz aside, there was a point made that I thought was actually pretty good. Given that nanoweave protects against one additional shot regardless of the weapon, nanoweave is more effective against low ROF weapons than it is against high ROF ones, making it disproportionately effective against the NC.

On that basis, it should be rebalanced or re-purposed purely to remove that bias.

While this is true to a certain extent, this isn't nearly as large of a problem as rocket pods and lock on weapons. I'm all for balanced game play (especially since i'm a non paying PS2 player due to lack of game optimization right now, will spend some money when SoE decides to support AMD), but the fact is in order for customers to spend money they have to feel like they are getting something useful out of it. There is without a doubt that paying customers are paying for an advantage. Let me just make a short list of things that are straight upgrades that you can pay money for, which means its a much larger issue than nano weave since you can't buy nano weave with SC (money). I play VS, so some weapons will be named after VS weapons.

Rocket Pods > Default ESF Weapon
Lock On Anti Air ESF Weapon > Default ESF Weapon

HA G2A Lock On Rocket Launcher (Nemesis) > Default HA rocket Launcher

For Magriders:
Halberd, Saron HRB, Proton II PPA > Default Mag secondary weapon (M20 Basilisk)

Sunderer, Galaxy:
M60 Bulldog > Default Sunderer/Galaxy weapon (M20 Basilisk)

Should I keep going? (could add in lightning weapons, air frames ect.) This is just the start of a large list of weapons that are straight upgrades from what new players receive by default. You can't argue the fact that this issue is much greater than the nanoweave issue because of the fact that these are all things that you can pay for which give you a huge advantage to non paying customers. I recently purchased a Nemesis (G2A) rocket launcher for my heavy for 1000 certs, i'm sure many players day 1 bought this. But for a non paying customer it took me almost 2-3 weeks of grinding and I play a lot. The nano weave argument pales in comparison to these blatant pay for advantage issues.

IMO none of these issues are as dire as the extreme lack of meta game. On Matherson VS already achieved the only worthwhile meta game "win condition" (getting the bonus on all the continents at the same time) whats next to strive for? Don't get me wrong, the game is fun but all the game is right now is grinding certs with very few greater goals other than trying to take away continent bonuses from other factions or defending your own continent bonuses. The game has very little strategy or depth to it, games without either of those have a short shelf life.

In almost all situations the 15% and the 25% have the same effective bonus, 1 additional bullet.

Level 5 only gives a second additional bullet against the weakest of weak guns.

:edit:

And FYI plenty of counter-arguements have been posted.

They just ignore them or claim anyone that disagrees with the OP is wrong.

Maybe you could explain why they seem to be the only worth while suit slots. Perhaps you could also explain why grenade bandoliers, ammunition belts, shield capacitor fall behind?

With a higher TTK than what we have the 25% increase might be an issue , but since we don't and since it only makes a bullet or two difference IMO it's not game breaking or OP.

Is it an upgrade ? I would say yes .. but then so are a lot of cert's *shrugs*

Nanoweave is noticeably more effective against low ROF weapons. Things such as the Gauss SAW and TMG-50 suffer against it. Not only is the armor pigeon holing you into selecting due to this obvious fact but it also forces others to use high ROF weapons to break through it.

Due to the state of Grenadeside 2 I can see where grenade bandoliers would be useful, ammunition bandolier is most likely situtional, my CARV-S has extended mags which has 200 rounds, I only have two magazines basically but that's plenty of ammo for me to do damage and get resupply. As for my choice of flak or nano it's mostly due to the nature of the beast. Engineers and medics might be an area with plenty of explosions and other shrapnel inducing things, that's why I would pick flak if anything for those two. Not fun trying to repair a sunderer when theres breaker rockets flying down overhead. Now I can't really say much for nanoweave as it's all from other people's mouths at the moment, so that might effect my judgement. I can see where Nano would be really annoying against other factions with less rounds in the mag and lower RoF because they can't spit out enough to put him down if he's running full 5 Nano.

To each his own I guess, personal taste and all that jazz.

Nano 5 screws up the balance for all slow ROF weapons such as the Gauss SAW, TMG-50, Battle Rifles, and anything that is a sub 650 ROF weapon. Using the 750+ ROF weapons you wont notice a thing.

Problem? You bet. Forces you to use NW5 and high ROF weapons. Real choice there!

Get rid of NW.

Given that nanoweave is a "one cert wonder" that does nothing for you beyond the first rank, I think you can make a convincing argument that the shield regen ability is actually better than nanoweave, especially when max certed.

It happens to me very often, due to a rather sneaky playstile, that i survive as the last of my teammates in smaller bases. I then try to harrass a bit so my mates have time to set up defences at the next base, ressulting in me, jetpacking around and killing people (i don't know how often i just killed a whole squad of TR just because they didn't know i was there) untill i run out of ammo but only got shot a few times in my shield, even if i get hunted by 5 or more people by simple running around and jetpacking over obstacles. well, now i have wasted 180 bullets and 5-8 TR and only got my beamer to light the dark. hm, no or minor health damage, no ammo.... i will take more ammo or even the adrenalin pump (love that thing those 10% more speed are awesome to annoy enemies while my squadmates brake trough defenses) everytime over nanoweave with my light, in offense and defense, so i can longer harrass and have less time wasted and letting the enemy to us in the first postion where they can kill my whole squad....

So you are basically saying due to the extra health a high rate of fire weapon will finish off a player quicker than it takes a lower rate of fire weapon? I assume the difference would be merely a fraction of a second if the dps of the compared guns were the same overall. This is all assuming that every bullet was hitting the target as well CoF and recoil differences being unaccounted for.

How exactly would this type of issue change based on player hp? Perhaps I am just not familiar enough with the different types of assault rifles and such.

If you want to remove Nanoweave Armour because it's a clear upgrade a new player doesn't have, you'd have to remove every upgrade. A scope, compensator, forward grip, laser sight are clear upgrades to your weapon a new player doesn't have. Health packs and C4 are clear upgrades a new player doesn't have. And then there are all the guns which are superior to stock weapons and which you can buy with cash. A new player doesn't have access to those either.

They're not interested in creating a balanced multiplayer FPS that can be played competitively, where every player should always have the same opportunities. They're interested in creating an MMO, where it's okay for players who have invested more time to kill new players - not because they're more skilled but because they're better equipped.

That is the time to hold to your ideals.

Never sweat, never come unglued, never let them take you to the basest of petty arguments. Treat them all the same whether you feel they deserve it or not. If they cannot navigate the topic, manhandle them as needed- through logic, reason, and a better grasp of the angles involved. Do it all with a smile and easy candor towards the topic and presentation no matter who posts...

The first refuge the ignorant takes is the slander of one's character because they can do nothing else with any degree of success...

The devs said they intended veterans to be no more than 20% more powerful than new players. Sounds like they kept true to that goal to me. At least as far as Nanoweave is concerned. If you want new players to be on the same level your far better off campaigning for stuff like Rocket Pods, Bolt Actions, Shotguns, Tank AV turrets, and so on to be available by default. As they give infinitely more advantage, and feel like pure upgrades in many situations. Where as NW is a meh 1 cert point might as well get it so I can survive with 1 bar of life very very rarely type deal. Considering the prevalence of grenade/rocket spam I intend to go with the Flak instead as soon as I can spare the certs.

Nanoweave is fine.

Sincerely,

SKYeXile
THE #1 Player.

/thread

yeah, i dont get it... YOU CAN EAT 2 MORE BULLETS THAN YOUR OPPONENT. how is that NOT a great thing???

i bet, people wich are saying that this is a useless perk are the same guys who will spam 100 forum pages over some stupid TKK statistic

-.-

Sorry, but this cert is available to everyone. There is no reason to take it out.

The slower rate of fire weapons were already worse before NW. NW just extends ones life span in an all-hit scenario by roughly 80-100ms across the board (due to firing rates, naturally,) but that's a perfect scenario... The only weapons that really get shafted are the Gauss SAW and Reaper DMR. Currently these two weapons fire at 500 RPM and deal 200 damage under 10m distance, 167 damage beyond that, but then, these two weapons were the lowest DPS weapons in the game even without NW involved.

Not suprisingly, nanoweave amounts to a flat timespan increase with just the one bullet's difference. The average TR weapon will suffer +80ms difference in TTK, and the average gauss will suffer +100ms difference in TTK.

Cycler 750 rpm - 143 damage = 12.5 RPS 560-640ms
Carv - 750 RPM - 143 damage = 12.5 RPS 560-640ms
SABR - 600 RPM - 167 damage = 10.0 RPS 600-700ms
TRV -- 845 RPM - 143 damage = 14.0 RPS 500-571ms

GaussR 600 RPM - 167 damage = 10.0 RPS 600-700ms
GR-22- 800 RPM - 143 damage = 13.0 RPS 526-601ms
SAW -- 500 RPM - 200 damage = 08.3 RPS 602-722ms
Reaper 500 RPM - 200 damage = 08.3 RPS 602-722ms
SAW* - 500 RPM - 167 damage = 08.3 RPS 722-843ms
Reaper 500 RPM - 167 damage = 08.3 RPS 722-843ms

Source

If the SAW and Reaper kept their 200 damage at most ranges, and their RPM were improved by 45 rounds, they'd have a TTK of 550-660ms. The 600 RPM weapons also need only 45 more RPM to more closely match the 750 RPM weaponry at 558-651ms. Fun fact: 60 frames per second is a frame every 16ms. One is not going to notice the difference, even those believing they're beyond being an average human.

It should be noted perfect balance is going to be due to RoF and damage differences. This chart doesn't even consider CoF, bloom, recoil, or even who shot first (the biggest factor of all.)

Just to add: increasing the LMG and Rifle/carbine RoF to 550 RPM and 650 RPM brings the TTKs to 545-655ms (LMG) and 554-646ms (AR/Carb.) which might be more preferable. A frame's difference (in the ideal framerate) in either direction. depending on if the user needs to take an extra round or not.


EDIT: The NS-11 rifle might need to go up from 645 RPM to 700 to compensate for the shift. Judging from the sheet, SOE intends for this to be a lower TTK weapon with lots of other strengths (fast reload, great accuracy and handling) and bringing it up to 750 would just eclipse the cycler outright.




Math is fun.