On faction flavor and hard numbers [Graphs]

I have yet to see a NC weapons expert that actually plays NC. I can't imagine why that is.

Thanks for the visual bar graph, would read again =)

Why do you value anecdotal evidence over quantified data?

What it shows to me is VS are too similar to TR really. They are nearly the same just more accurate. Basically NC are designed around Burst Fire that's what the data shows. You burst an you get less COF so more accuracy, an more damaging bullets to make up for the DPS you lose during pauses between bursts. Where as TR, and strangely VS are both designed to just hammer down full auto, and try to compensate for the recoil.

Its nice to see some figures in graphs instead of an excel sheet for once as its far easier to read, all the figures are interesting but pretty much as expected. I know bloom, recoil, reload times all the rest are important but as so much of it can be controlled by learning your weapon it really just mostly comes down to DPS and its no surprise that as we've said before its TR TR TR, but I'm NC and not going to change just cause of a few graphs.

Your recoil statistic is flawed due to the nature by which most people counter recoil.

They counter it on a near round to round basis(if you don't feel like reading that, then let me spell it out simply: it is easier to adjust for a single round fired from a TR/VS weapon than for an NC weapon) , not a hold the trigger down and then counter it after the magazine clicks empty.

That's ********, don't try and push an agenda by trying to use some facts to cover up some lies.

Thanks.

If you only fire 1 bullet at a time I think I figured out your problem.

Also, there is no way you are countering recoil 8 to 12 times per second.


Edit: Again, using your metric NC is more accurate because people have to make fewer adjustments.

Stop with the Denial and move to Acceptance.

One thing I noticed that is not in the data spreadsheet that you linked to, is the time from pulling the trigger to the first bullet firing. I've asked in that other thread if anyone has info/data about it. But potential values of that could affect any DPS calculations for the different weapons. E.g. if the first bullet is always instantaneous then it could throw a slightly more advantageous light on weapons that do higher damage per bullet but fire slower than might initally appear to be the case just by looking at average dps.

One thing I want to clarify: bloom is the recoil actually seen, and cof is bullet deviation from where the sights are aimed?

lol look at the spread sheet again and look at the recoil numbers. tr lmg has .4 recoil, nc lmg has .5. , this is the pattern across the board.your playing the wrong faction if you want less recoil. nc hit almost 20% harder per bullet and any reduction in recoil would give you guys the same as us. get a front grip, compensator, and go to work. or play tr, damage per shot is alot less but the recoil mite be to your liking. as for ttk......

used the data and took into account that osk sniper rifles dose 750 dmg ,
nc6 gauss saw dose 1660 dmg a sec at 8.3 bullets per second. total health 750 ,3.2 shots to kill.
t9 carv dose 1787 dmg a sec at 12.5 bullets per second. total health 750 ,5.2 shots to kill.
the numbers are so close it not even funny. ttk is almost identical .

We will presume an average human reaction time of 215 milliseconds.(*1)

First bullet fired:
NC - Recoil: 0 - Time:0 - Damage: 169
TR - Recoil: 0 - Time:0 - Damage: 143

Second bullet fired:
NC - Recoil: 0.4 - Time: 0.0962 - Damage: 338
TR - Recoil: 0.307 - Time: 0.0823 - Damage: 286

Third bullet fired:
NC - Recoil: 0.8 - Time: 0.192 - Damage: 507
TR - Recoil: 0.614 - Time: 0.164 - Damage: 429

Both shooters will begin to adjust for their recoil somewhere in here, between the third and fourth shot fired.

Fourth bullet fired:
NC - Recoil: 1.2 - Time: 0.288 - Damage: 676
TR - Recoil: 0.921 - Time: 0.247 - Damage: 572

Every three bullets:
NC - Recoil: 0.8 - Time: 0.192 - Damage: 507
TR - Recoil: 0.614 - Time: 0.164 - Damage: 429
So, every fourth shot both players will be able to change how, or what they're doing to compensate for their recoil.

So, what does it mean?

It means that unless the TR is incompetent, and can't handle his gun, he will at all times be able to with greater ease compensate for his recoil.

It also means that the NC starts off needing to compensate for more recoil than his TR counterpart, and will have to adjust for larger increments of recoil.

Sources:
- The OP
- www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/stats.php (*1)

Edit: had to change out a link because I linked to the wrong thing
Edit 2: for some damn reason that link will not take you to the stats page, and instead takes you to a game to measure your own reaction time. Click on the link at the top that says stats, in order to get to the aggregate results for the site.

No, recoil is how your guns moves. Fire off a mag into the wall and don't move your mouse. Your gun will start aiming "up" the longer you fire. Your cone of fire will also bloom independently.

You are ignoring that the guns do not fire at the rate. Also, you are using reaction time wrong. The "adjustment" won't happen until .425 seconds. You start firing at 0, you realize you need to adjust at .215 and your adjustment would come into effect at .425 . You are also assuming a perfect readjustment. A proper comparison would be based on time, not "bullet". "Bullet" is not a common factor because the times are offset. Attempting to do a comparison based on an incongruous factor voids the comparison. Do it based on time.

For anyone else reading: He stops at 3 because once you go much further TR and VS jump way a head in Recoil. He is setting up a perfect scenario and ignoring rate of fire to make a point. But once you factor in "reality" it is clear that he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Don't you ******* DARE touch my cyclers!

Wouldn't be a problem if you used VS gear, now would it.

"Bullet" is used to keep the damn things in an orderly pattern to illustrate that both are damn near occurring at the same time on a time scale.

Also I said "begin to adjust for their recoil", not "adjust their recoil" as you are stating. Nice straw-man though. a better statement though would have been to say that they react. With the first reaction being that they need to adjust for recoil, and subsequent reactions being to continue to adjust for recoil.

I'll ask observers to ignore you considering that you can't accept the fact that both shooters will on average react just before they've fired four bullets.

You Vanu are all same. Every time I enter a room you all think you can be a hero and stand directly in front of me and unload everything you got. LEARN to flank or run. Unfortunately you'd rather feed my mercies and then come on here and complain about it.

NC on the other hand, they are tough. Every time they are flanking me and pulling rockets. Not easy cannon fodder like the vanu.

Who said I was complaining about your cycler? Too busy tapping your generators.

And yet majority are Vanu and on servers I am on NC also out number TR most of the time.

This thread only tells 1/2 the story: OP forgot to include vehicles.

TR are inferior in this department.

But I get it, this is a nerf train thread and NC/VS will not be happy until TR becomes the worst at everything.

Meanwhile, I will now go back to fighting at a 8+% disadvantage vs each NC/VS.

Can't stop tinking

You mean you're asking them to ignore me because the point you're trying to make is utterly invalid and you are getting mad that someone is countering the avalanche of ******** you are putting out.


Again, comparison bullet by bullet is completely irrelevant. You also left out that the NC gun was doing more damage until the "extra" bullet comes into play from VS/TR. At which point the TR/VS Comes becomes less accurate.

Since until that point the NC gun is doing more damage it is less accurate. After that point the TR/VS guns do more damage but become less accurate.

I can boil this entire gun whining down to 1 simple fact.
The Orion is damn near identical to the CARV, other than clip size. Yet how many people were crying about the Orion over the CARV?


People have become obsessed with the CARV and releasing "facts" hasn't changed that. In the ForumSide2 facts are irrelevant.