[Suggestion] Could we finally address a2g

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by JustGotSuspended, Dec 9, 2021.

  1. JustGotSuspended

    Especially during low pop when all it takes is 2 rep gals or a single lib to instakill the spawns and any vehicle/infantry shooting at them without sustaining so much as a scratch. They nerf rep sundies, but rep gals are fine?? Come on.

    And then can we fix the busted tank buster and dalton so ground targets don't get 1 clipped without the possibility of fighting back? Oh and also the broken a2g lol pods, hornets, and noseguns while we're at it.

    It's especially cancerous during off hours as there's few if any skyknights to counter, and thanks to the effectiveness of aa there's not enough to kill the air even if everyone in the hex pulls some. This kills fights.

    For example today, a group of extremely skilled players wiped out all the spawns of both sides during a 3 way fight (the only fight) at nasons using 2-3 rep gals, 2 libs, a reaver and a valk. In 5 minutes every sunderer was systematically blown up, despite most people pulling strikers, aa maxes, skyguards and rangers after realizing what was going on. They were mocked as every spawn and everyone defending them were blown to bits, nearly instantly by air bulldogs, cas-14, spurs, daltons and airhammers.

    This type of stuff happens every day all the time, not just during off hours. However during prime time there's more fights, more players, so there's a chance you can still have some fun after one fight gets crushed. During off hours however, as occurred today, this really halts any possibility of a fight occurring, and it's even worse when the continents not fully unlocked as the a2g can quickly circle around the continent to deny any fight from starting.

    Now ofc I assume I suck and idk how to deal with a2g. However I believe there's something fundamentally unbalanced about it. Had it been 2 mbts and 3 rep sunderers attacking the buses, I have a feeling they would've had trouble and at least lost one vehicle while attempting to wipe out every single sunderer. Yet here the a2g was able to kill buses with over a dozen engineers repairing, while on top of that a bunch of aa heavies, maxes and a skyguard were shooting at them, without even so much as catching on fire.

    I can't fully blame the players that go out of their way to kill fights during off hours, if doing so is what amuses them. However it would be cool to buff ground vehicle/infantry resistances to a2g, buff aa or nerf a2g or a combination of those. Because it's pretty clear something is broken when a handful of players using it can completely prevent 2/3 of the playerbase from pulling spawns, which in turn prevents an overwhelming majority of the playerbase from having a fight and thus fun.

    So idk but I'd recommend finally addressing this, as it has always been one of the biggest issues in the game, only amplified now due to low pop numbers. Normally I stick around and try really hard to start a fight, have fun, etc when the fights been killed and basically everyone on my faction logged out. But it's just becoming impossible to have fun during off hours. And while a2g isn't the sole reason there are no fights during off hours, it definitely is a major contributor.

    Perhaps I could also recommend increasing the sunderers health to that of a galaxy, or even a colossus, and adding more (safe) places to deploy a spawn, especially in the bases that open up during the unstable wg.
    • Up x 5
  2. Liewec123

    Yeah had a similar thing happen yesterday about 2pm we had a single sundy (mine) in the fight and a bans**ters came along and nuked it, and then mopped up with bansh**t, we were shooting at it with lock ons but all it needs to do is go up and down and the useless missiles just kept flying around.

    We had single lightnings/harassers etc try coming to try to kill the spawn too,
    but ground vehicles are easy for a group of infantry to eliminate.
    But air don't seem to be allowed to die...not to AA weapons anyway, it takes lucky tank rounds or decimator rockets.
    • Up x 5
  3. JustGotSuspended


    Yeah which is aight when dealing with total non-composite esf noobs but when it's larger vehicles that can tank 3-4 no problem, and on top of that with bulldog rep gals....might as well follow the rest of players and simply log out.

    I don't get the dev's decision to protect a2g, infils, and other cancer that drives away a majority of players. You'd think their goal would be to make gameplay fun so as many people as possible can join and enjoy the game...smh
    • Up x 3
  4. BlackFox

    My guess would be that the majority of players left are those using all that stuff, as everybody else stopped playing due to said things being too annoying
    • Up x 2
  5. JibbaJabba

    The fastest path to fixing the horrors of A2G is to fix the controls.

    A2G is supposed to be high risk, particularly solo. But the skies are empty. Devoid of any A2A threat so they can act with impunity.

    1. Fix the mouse accel problem in the controls. Add a "legacy" switch to serve those accustomed to the new trash.
    2. Add mouse yaw. The people want it.
  6. BlackFox

    3. Separate FOV for aircrafts
    4. Separate sliders for vertical- and horizontal control sensitivity
    5. A crosshair in line with the weapons instead of just being in the centre of the screen
  7. Scroffel5

    A2G is annoying. Me and a dude started locking on to a Liberator the moment we saw it, and we each fired like 3 rockets before it even decided to kill us. Stupid AOE damage means you can't run, and the stupid high health (higher than an MBT) means you can't do the needed damage from the ground, and thats just stupid. He killed both of us before we even got it to half HP, thanks to his heals. And if you don't have flak, you can't scare them away, and even if you do have flak, you can't do anything from range because of its inaccuracy.

    Lower the radius of all of their AI AOE damage weapons, such as the ESF noseguns, so we can actually escape them just like they can escape us, and lower the health to be exactly the same or less than an MBT, because tanks shouldn't fly and escape that fast.
    • Up x 4
  8. Tormentos

    I for one would include the construction system into fighting aircraft forces. I am talking about powerful Radar emplacements working as an engagement radar with twice the range of a normal engagement radar. Due to that, radar bases will then serve as an early warning system, since their engagement radar detects enemy aircrafts not only earlier, but negates their vehicle stealth by 25%.

    Stationary AA missile emplacements or even a missile launching system for the Lightning would be other things. I would like to see Maybe a single G2A missile doesn't do enough to repel an ESF, Let's see them react to 6 or 8 at once... 'You are not welcome here!' would never be more announced better than with a barrage of missiles coming straight at you. And no, the Lighning missile system would not replace infantry launchers, it would only underline them.
    • Up x 3
  9. RRRIV

    if A2G does get addressed, it should be in steps so the entire playstyle of A2G doesn't become a cancerous slog like A2A is

    1.) Air survivability
    -reduce health pools for galaxies and liberators
    -increase damage dealt by lock ons and flak guns
    -increase recharge time on flares and fire suppression
    (I personally believe that air is too difficult to kill without overwhelming fire power which allows them to loiter much longer than they should, making their weapons seem much more broken than they may be)
    2.) Air damage out
    -Carefully adjust the damage for all ESF free fire weaponry
    (ESF weaponry is the most oppressive of the air vehicles and if the increased damage to them doesn't see their effectiveness drop, then the weapons themselves need to be tuned to where they are still effective, but not oppressive)
    3.) introduce more G2A options
    -SAM construction sites
    -SAM weaponry on vehicles
    -AA MBT primary weapons (i know the prowler is basicly a 120mm AA gun, but still)
    (the final step is introducing more options to players who want to be dedicated AA. Skyguard and Ranger harasser are the best options atm and that is very limited, even with step 1 + 2 being implemented)
    • Up x 1
  10. JustGotSuspended

    I wouldn't mind some SAM sites at construction bases, perhaps things that could actually kill aircraft instead of the current aa construction turret that tosses a dozen wet toilet paper shots everywhere before overheating.
  11. FLHuk

    Thou shalt not nerf air, for it was written in the before times.
    1. Learn how to fly to combat air.
    2. Then ignore all air to farm planetmans.
    Thus is the way!
    • Up x 3
  12. Tormentos

    Until the end times come and planetmans band together in the forum to summon Ragnarock unto the air in form of the Hydra SAM emplacement, bringing great peril and wrath to the skies, which shall burn and flood with the fiery wreckages of ESFs and the tears of the airmans. So it is written and so it shall be done, when the sins of the airmans know no bounds.
    • Up x 1
  13. Demigan

    But it isnt a good path, since all it does is shift who is farmed when.
    It is fully possible to do A2G in almost every A2A loadout. You cant expect aircraft to continuously battle other aircraft, so quickly one side has defeated the other and gets free reign to farm the ground. Bonus! Its now easier for players to learn to do so.

    Instead we need to look for a good interaction between air and ground. When ground units come under fire from aircraft there is virtually nothing they can do but hope that there is cover nearby, which is virtually non-existant for vehicles and infantry need to be seconds away from a building or they are dead anyway.
    In the meantime aircraft can always escape, they can dictate when, where and from which direction they attack and have higher powered weapons in general. On top of that any dedicated G2A weapon is underpowered enough that aircraft can still escape even when caught with their pants down.

    To remedy that situation, any non-G2A unit needs to have some protection against aircraft. This can be literal protection like shielding or by making themselves much harder targets than they are now. You can also introduce light G2A weapons available to all vehicles in some capacity, small magazines and high skill to deal with aircraft but with the potential of a kill with repeated hits or fending off aircraft through debilitating debuffs which encourage the aircraft to break off their attack.
    Dedicated G2A weapons need to be dangerous. If you sneak up underneath a hovering ESF and open fire from point blank range they need to be DEAD, rather than current flak/machine gun weapons which let the ESF (or any other aircraft) simply escape and return later, if not pick another fight where less G2A is in use.
    G2A weapons also need uses before aircraft arrive. You dont want the current situation where G2A is so weak against everything (including its counter) that you only pick it when aircraft arrive, only to ditch it after use. You want G2A weapons to be already on the scene when aircraft arrive. For tanks and infantry it is simply par of the course to deal with AV/AI weapons that are already there when they arrive, aircraft should have no problem doing the same. For that to happen you need G2A weapons that have multiple uses against ground targets as well. From simple utilities like debuffing enemies to being designed for attacking specific targets. It should not be a stretch for a G2A auto-canon to also be great at long-range anti-infantry fire (albeit with more than 1 direct hit needed to kill infantry). Or killing light vehicles like Harassers.
  14. RabidIBM

    Air is probably the weirdest aspect of this game. The hover duel meta is bizarre and the flight controls are like nothing else in any other game with aircraft. I can sometimes get friends to try out Planetside, but I can't get them to play air. They don't want Planetside's flight controls getting at all ingrained in their muscle memory and screwing things up in other games.

    I also fully agree that the Liberator is nucking futs. They can line up a TTK on a tank of less than one second if they do it right, but I can catch them landed and repairing and they still get away. Tanks, particularly Prowlers, got balanced around the apex players, but for some reason Liberators get balanced around mediocre players.
    • Up x 2
  15. csvfr

    Buff coyote missiles and decrease the cert costs, this lowers the skill ceiling of air-to-air combat and enables more people to challenge the skyknights. This would make ceasefire agreements between top pilots more tense and less beneficial as there would be a greater risk of encountering "randoms" willing to initiate fights in which they actually stand a chance to win.
  16. Scroffel5

    In the A2A side of this discussion, we need to make hover duels less advantageous. We need more jet, less helicopter.
  17. Soul_Shinobi

    I couldn't agree more, but despite libs and gals having gigantic health pools, nerfing those wouldn't sit well with some players. I feel an easy first step is that nothing whatsoever should be able to repair while not on the ground, period.
  18. Talthos

    Nerfing A2G doesn't address the actual core of the problem: The game's base designs.

    A huge number of bases have basically no overhead cover to protect against air attacks. Hell, most bases in the game don't even give you decent overhead cover for exiting the spawn room.

    Worse still, quite a few of the buildings still have openings that A2G (and/or HESH) can fire into, and hit infantry surprisingly far inside.

    Compounding matters further still, is the fact that many bases have control points that are either in direct line of sight to the outdoors, or are literally located completely outdoors.

    Planetside 1 avoided this problem by having base capture objectives only be located indoors. Furthermore, they were buried deep enough indoors to be well out of reach of any vehicles or aircraft outside (alongside having functioning doors, but that's another topic for another time).

    Anyway, bottom line: Nerfing A2G (and/or HESH) won't solve the underlying base design problem. It certainly won't stop people from spamming A2G and HESH at the zerg level (which they're able to do largely because of the aforementioned base design problem).
    • Up x 3
  19. csvfr

    Buffing G2A is also a bad direction. Infantry only renders to the ESF within 300m or so (variable depending on fight size), but they can counterattack the ESF out to far greater ranges than that. This is why A2G farmers are always close range. They can't unload the rocket pods from a safe distance even if the position of enemy infantry is known. No damage is dealt in this case due to client-side mechanics requiring the targets to be rendered. This means that the A2G farmer has 2 main strategies:
    1. Be in very close range to the infantry for the entire farm. The pilot will use buildings, walls or nearby mountains for cover.
    2. Boost into the target area, wait 3-4 seconds for the infantry to "pop in", and only then unload the weapons.
    Buffing G2A to be able to kill ESF even before they have rendered is sort of unfun for the pilot.
  20. Tormentos

    No one speaks of killing them before they render, but one infiltrator with a SOFLAM laser designator targeting the ESF/Liberator farming the troops might lock-on for the rest of the infantry and several HAs would gladly unload their launchers lock-on-time-free on that ESF to get rid of that pesky farmer.