Just how bad is the client side issue?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by DarkQuark, Dec 29, 2020.

  1. OldSchoolD

    This "subtle cheater" theme is recursive, because there's never a definitive conclusion about it, only speculation. Logic says what the above poster describes, most oddities can be subscribed to a mix of common causalities within the game code/rules.

    Then again, and I think this is what aggravates most people who talk about cheaters, it's that being the server's latency and hiccups the same for everyone, and even understanding that the code favors ftp players with worse computers and worse pings (but only those experienced enough to use these factors to their advantage), you sometimes see some players being excellent in PS2 and achieving scores per minute, accuracies and headshot rates that are at odds with what most players experience as realistically possible in this game.

    A recent example that comes to mind of a (presumably russian) player that consistently outperforms : https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=kocmohabtxtr&show=weapons

    I still think these cases are within the normal parameters, but to the player in the receiving end, the experience of facing these players who just insta-kill you on sight becomes so infuriating, that I'd bet PS2 loses many new and potentially paying players as a result of them meeting with these wizards.
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  2. DarkQuark


    I have a very fast connection, a stout PC, and I even prioritize PS2 traffic as it leaves my network. Sometimes I get the distinct feeling this will often times almost puts me at a disadvantage. Why would I say something so counter intuitive? Because I get a whole lot of the burps and pauses while I get insta-killed. You know all the weird stuff like seeing myself die multiple times, seeing myself die too early or too late, stutters and the like during 1v1 scenarios. The ONLY time I notice this stuff is during 1v1 combat. I am sure it happens more often than that but I think it becomes more noticeable when it is just 1 guy vs 1 guy and you know what you did and you can see what he did.

    No I am not saying this happens constantly nor am I saying it really harms my play (although it is annoying sometimes for sure). But it is frequent enough to be very noticeable at times.

    I think some of this is the nature of the beast because we want to have huge battles with lots of people. But I hope there is a way they can tighten it up some so at least it does not happen as often.
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  3. iller

    ^ over 30% acc with the MSW doesn't actually surprise me that much. That weapon has no business being on the DakaDaka faction

    ...no I think the actual "subtle" ones already know enough to stat-dump in order to remain below the radar so posting profile links really doesn't prove or disprove as much as it should

    I'm not suggesting it needs to be... I'm just saying there **should be** some disincentives for the small number of players who do leverage it in very tight Macro-induced instances of when they just coincidentally drop some packets, and then just coincidentally have a sudden burst of both accuracy and damage-compression that their target was literally not allowed to respond to even if they were serpentining or got behind a wall in the server's own eyes.

    ...the PROBLEM as it were, is that the Devs themselves never equipped the server to understand what its own eyes were seeing. So it just treats every single player as a first time offender no matter how consistently and often that player just coincidentally does the thing.

    If they were to just accept that basic reality, they could be convinced to spare a few tiny extra subroutines in their Servers to more closely monitor just those couple of players instead of trying to do full on security sweeps for every little inconsistency in Quantum-perceived player vectors for all 300 casuals in range too
  4. JustGotSuspended


    Yeah, it's because the game runs clientside :(

    In some scenarios, it's nice to have good ping. But typically in this game players with high or jittering ping will have a greater advantage, because of the game's extrapolation.
  5. JustGotSuspended


    Here I feel you're getting confused a bit. The guy isn't suddenly getting accurate during his lag spike. The guy has a lag spike, has the time to shoot all the bullets he wants at you while you're floating in a linear trajectory and then all that damage catches up to you at once and you suddenly die. The guy doesn't have situational aim or whatever, it's just he's had the time to dump 4-5 mags into you, before you're able to react, because clientside. Even if the guy is landing mostly headshots, does that surprise you? Players train themselves to do so, and how hard is it to aim for the head when your opponent is literally slowly moving along a predictable trajectory? You're completely approaching it wrong. The guy doesn't suddenly have laser aim during a lag spike, the aim stays the same, it's just the damage catches up at once, and you're an easy target on his screen.

    That brings us to what you see. You might start the breakdance, or hide behind cover, or even pop a medkit. All the things you're doing don't mean anything if on the other dude's screen you still appear like a free kill. What you see on your screen isn't yet what the server sees. When the server synchronizes your and your opponents responses, then you start dying behind cover, your corpse zooming all over the place, the other guy moving erratically, and whatever side effects of lag we're all accustomed to.

    Yeah it's super annoying to die to people you know simply won because of where they're playing from, or a lucky burst of lag. I know it always feels like you're the one getting the short end of the stick, but that's not entirely true. All the hackusations people get make this obvious.

    It's important to remember there's a lot of players that can play on a map. That's why the game runs clientside. The more information the server has to process, the more laggy it will be, and it increases the likelihood of crashes. Both cases won't really improve the situation, imo. What would this be for anyways? To ban the dude playing from deep inside the amazon on his neighbor's router while downloading the star wars saga during a hurricane? To confirm the fact he's one laggy boi? There's not much roi, or even a decent reason to highlight laggy players. Yes, they are annoying. Yes, I would like them gone. But you can't just start banning players based on ping, at least not using the method you propose. A ping/region lock would work yes, but considering the fact there's not a lot of servers, you'd be isolating a large portion of the (paying) playerbase. Keeping these laggy players is a necessary evil to keep the game afloat. I'm not sure there's a point in adding more workload to the already struggling servers, in order to simply confirm the obvious that can't be dealt with.

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  6. AlcyoneSerene

    Ordinarily I would clarify misunderstandings or explain certain concepts, or request that from someone. Here I find it best we each continue on our own separate ways, and that I no longer quote you going forward. Thank you for the discussion.
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  7. Crash Bandicoot

    There is no way players with worse or older computers, which also means lower frame rates, have any kind of advantage over others with better computers.
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  8. DarkQuark

    Probably not if you are just talking graphics performance alone but I think ,in general, what we are all talking about here is network latency in all it's forms. This is the thing that throws off the "sync" between users/players and causes the weird stuff we see.
  9. Crash Bandicoot

    Having a bad computer with lower frame rates is disadvantageous in any situation. No matter someone's intentions, it is rule number 1 to have a good pc for any gamer. I understand what you are all talking about here. For example, it is better to have a good computer combined with bad connection than a bad one.
  10. JustGotSuspended

    No problem, although I would highly suggest you research and invest time in understanding what you are trying to address, considering you're disagreeing on simple factual information.
  11. JustGotSuspended


    I'll assume he meant worse connection.

    Typically older computers have worse connection and longer processing times, which means they'll likely miss more ticks than newer ones.

    Although I'll assume how unplayable the game gets on low hardware would really nullify that advantage.
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  12. Crash Bandicoot

    Exactly!

    You can't have any type of advantage this way. Quite the opposite!
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  13. Anantidaephobia

    About to dump fiber and get my 33.6 kbps modem back :D
  14. The Grand Crusader


    I've literally only seen this video posted once on this forum. It was published January last year. So it couldn't have been posted that much in a year. Sure some of his accounts have been banned but he is still playing the game. Saw him playing on NC last week. They should ban ALL his accounts for that video alone. You said it yourself, cheaters are "dealt with" promptly according to you. I never said cheaters are everywhere in this game. They are just more of a problem then you are aware of.

    "usually under 20-30 minutes to ban someone automatically." Hahaha...again how are you getting this information? I've never been able to track BattlEye stats. Please link me the data. You are coming up with all these figures and information that even the devs probably don't know. It looks like to me YOU are the one spreading false information.

    Where did I ever say I report everyone who kills me? You are literally putting words in my mouth now. I said I reported hundreds of players, some of them multiple times over 8 YEARS of playing this game. Do the math on that. Over 8 years of playing and I have only died under a thousand times? Your statement doesn't make sense.

    "but they can't just ban a dude because a few angry noobs got salty" You just said that the devs deal with cheaters very promptly. Regardless of how I was reported, if they were efficient at their jobs I would have been banned pretty quickly. Just proves you are wrong about your information. "good players were forced to upload/stream their sessions because the community thought they were "hackers" - none of them were." I remember a couple streamers who played this game back in its prime that got banned. Can't remember there names but one of them was a very well known and respected player until he got banned. This was during the whole MLG hype train where all these "pro" players were coming out of the woodworks like roaches to play PS2.

    You bully and harass cheaters yet you downplay the cheating problem in this game and act like the devs are on top of it and BattlEye works 100%. Yet they ban you for bothering a cheater. Does not make any sense to me. Something doesn't add up here. Either you are defending the integrity of the game or defending one of the biggest problems that has plagued this game for years.
  15. The Grand Crusader


    Yeah I am starting to think no matter what you and I say to him, he is just gonna keep downplaying this problem and spreading false information about this game. Probably best if we just ignore him. He probably is pretending to be someone he's not.
  16. JustGotSuspended


    I got those numbers from a hacker forum a while back when they added the thing. I'm not gonna trouble myself into cross-checking that, but it seems like a reasonable primary source, and it collaborates with the basic understanding I have of how the game and mechanics it uses works.

    unless they are sent a video of you abusing a macro, how are they supposed to respond to something that's not manipulating any aspect of the game? It'd be like them banning people for rebinding their keys. Macros aren't detectable. You running around with a crouch macro without getting banned then claiming the devs allow hackers in game is ridiculous. They have banned people using macros in the past, the just need definitive proof, like a video that the person is using a macro. Otherwise people could just accuse each other and get banned over using a macro, just because the devs chose a player's word/judgement over facts.

    It's like taking 2 free samples instead of one, then complaining the police doesn't arrest thieves.

    'cheaters are a huge issue, they are the game's biggest flaw'

    then proceeds to prove how little cheaters he actually encounters.

    ....can we say this speaks for itself...?

    Ok dude, where are YOUR numbers? I don't really see how you're getting to the conclusion that cheating is such a huge issue, and I'm downplaying the problem by explaining to you how silly half your statements are. If you've been around for 8 years, you'll remember the "huge" crackdown on hackers led to the discovery that 19 different IP addresses were modifying hitboxes. Population has declined, and even if for some reason the number of hackers stayed the same, they don't even amount to a fraction of a percent. Yes, there's also some cheaters who just exploit, or use macros, aren't actually manipulating anything. These are harder to catch, and there's more of them than hackers. The bar likely stays well below 1%, or even 0.5%, and you can try to come up with whatever evidence or deductions to say that's not the case.


    Not a lot of stuff makes sense to you, so I'll try explaining again. You have even less information that me to start saying cheaters are a significant issue. If you've seriously played the game for 8 years and still think that, you're doing something wrong. Through your childish claims, you're making the game, and the community look bad. As much as I harass cheaters on the extremely rare occasions I encounter one (even more rare if that cheater is actually using a script), I also try to contain the spread of misinformation from salty fools, who wouldn't know the difference between lag and "hackz" no matter how long we explain it to them.

    Cheating is a problem, like in every game. Planetside 2 does a great job containing what few scripted cheaters still roam around the game. It takes the a bit longer to act on non-hackers, which I consider a fair trade-off over instantly banning a player until their name can be cleared. Otherwise, people would just be able to report and "poof" eliminate a player they don't like from the fight. Now you're trying to say cheating is a big problem, and all this stuff I've heard constantly from ignorant players. Where are you getting your information from? If it's such a big issue, you could surely drown us in all the data you've collected, that's super easy to find. I usually suggest to people like you to share your sessions, and we can pick apart all the "cheaters" you encounter.

    Yes, ignore facts, reason, and whatever else you want. Of course you're gonna have a hard time convincing knowledgeable people hackers are a huge issue from your empty replies. Just quit spreading your silliness in the forms.

    Here's who I am. I play for fun, my stats are below average, yet I get hackusations and ragetells nearly twice every hour. That means in my average session, I've been accused of hacking more that the number of hackers I've encountered playing the game non-stop since 2nd day of launch.

    https://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=trspy007&show=statistics

    Feel free to link what we might know you by so we understand the caliber of player we're trying to reason with. I have a feeling you're one of the guys I encounter like this, just sending ragetells blaming others for their mistakes, trying to cover up the fact they're bad. Or maybe you don't know what lag and clientside and how the game works? Or both?

  17. Towie

    Now i'm confused - you were claiming to be Moukass just here - https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...is-the-client-side-issue.256013/#post-3562461 and yet now you're claiming to be TRSpy007 ? The two have very different stat profiles. (I do have time for Moukass - despite his infuriating mannerisms at least he has posted a lot of videos to help others).


    I'm going to have to admit - reading your posts, it did strike a chord, sounded very much like TRSPY kin to me. And I would know wouldn't I ? We've had a run in before haven't we ? Definitely the same modus operandi. https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...about-the-cheating.254397/page-3#post-3551827

    Like when I said in this very thread - as a moment in time example with the number of people reading a hack forum then you extrapolate that moment in time (hint - moment in time - not 'ever' - I thought I was quite clear) to calculate the total number of cheats. It's an asinine statement so I didn't bother responding assuming you were a) reading what you wanted to interpret rather than the text or b) not a native English speaker. I should have considered a c) You are indeed TRSPY.
  18. The Grand Crusader


    Well...thanks for confirming who you are. That explains everything now. I see no need to even respond anymore to your bizarre rants. Just for giggles I will link you who I am. ValorCall - Player Viewer - PlanetSide 2 (fisu.pw)
  19. JustGotSuspended


    No, I'm not claiming to be moukass, I'm saying me AND moukass, AND a whole bunch of other players are in zones where DBG doesn't accept our payments. I'll admit, reading back, I could've worded that a bit better. If I was moukass, I wouldn't have been complaining since I'd have my free membership from DBG lol.

    You provided the numbers of people in a hacking forums at the time. I compared that to the average number of players at the time (last 30 days). I then pointed out, the number is awfully close to the 19 hitbox cheater from years ago. Unless you're insinuating you picked a day where all the hackers were off and if we check now we'll see a mega spike in visits. If you really are linking useless information, don't link it then, because you're saying yourself it's meaningless.

    No, I feel you've got no idea what's going on, and you're getting lost in whatever futile statements you try coming up with to convince us cheating is a large-scale, blown-up problem.

    Yup, people continually try to exaggerate this issue, and constantly I try figuring out how they are coming to such conclusions, if we could review footage from their session, etc so I can understand where people are getting these cheaters from. Unfortunately, I'm not sure these people understand what cheaters are, and far less how to validate their wild, baseless claims.

    It's so counter-intuitive, and they contradict themselves at every point, so I'm not surprised they have no evidence, and resort to ignoring the obvious. Too bad, I would've loved to know how they know there's so many subtle cheaters only they notice but not DBG. Or how frequently they come across a hacker, when I've played years back to back without encountering more than a dozen.

    Weren't you the one who brought up these numbers from the forums to enlighten us? I claimed there were so little people cheating, then you suggested I join a forum to discover otherwise, and pulled up the fact 22 people were going through them. Then I pointed out most of these guys don't know how to hack, another portion are just curious people like us, and when cross-checked with the game's average current population as of the last 30 days, we get numbers that barely even exist. You're the one who was bringing up the forums to prove there are tons of hackers in the game, then get salty when I explain it's not true, AND even if it were, it wouldn't matter. And let's be serious. There were 22 people at the time. Check again today if you want. I'll bet whatever you want that number is still well below 50. Even if there were 100 people viewing the forum and they all hacked, it wouldn't matter, it'd still be insignificant numbers in game. Again, you've failed to prove your point, then try to blame me for your error.

    I read what you write, be it not much. The only thing I can interpret is that you've got little understanding of the subject.
  20. JustGotSuspended


    OH lol I remember you. We met on emerald a while back, TotalyheroicOignion. Sad to see you still think cheaters are a huge issue, but you're chill.

    You could share us some footage of your sessions, I would love to understand what you think is cheating, and how often you across it. Of course, given how little cheaters there are, I'd have to wait years for some footage, so no surprise if you can't respond.