[Vehicle] Prowler may be the worst tank in the game (Slightely in depth, bait title)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Jul 23, 2020.

  1. karlooo


    I had this suggestion to rework the Prowler in the past: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps...r-to-make-it-fit-with-tr-traits-speed.252371/
    The concept was to basically turn it into a light tank, use its speed to get into an unexpected location and then the lock-down passive ability would make sense for this role.

    Copy/paste from the post:

    "A rework I came up with will give the Prowler both it's traits. (Speed, firepower)

    So what should be removed in my opinion is:
    -Barrage
    -Gun stabilizer (Example: Ant has no stabilizer on it's mandible shaped tools)

    And in return it will receive:
    -A max speed of 90 kph with the physics of a Harasser, Wrel came up with:
    https://twitter.com/WrelPlays/status/1096165732881117184?s=09
    -Increased reverse speed
    -HP nerf
    -Increase in damage [Added right now]

    No gun stabilizer will make it a disadvantage while shooting in motion...So instead the player will have to use its speed to get to a good firing location, maybe deploy when necessary.
    It's lower HP and un-stabilized gun will make it always lose on head-on engagements.
    So the prowler will basically turn into some back stabber tank lol."
    ___________________

    But I don't think this could be possible because the hull of the Prowler tank is too low to the ground and with such high speed the highest Prowler death rate will be just like the ANT's -> due to flipping over.
  2. karlooo

    Also wanted to add in that the Prowler would need a better optic than 2x, if it would be this light fast tank because it's not enough.
    Maybe giving it 90 KPH could be possible if the Lightening can handle such high speeds off-road.

    I don't understand how most people here say that the Prowler is completely fine. I see it as a complete waste of resources, compared to other options: Lightening, Solo Harasser.

    ->Need to bombard infantry? Harasser with the Marauder will do it in a cheap, effective way.

    ->Need to fight tanks? Lightening has weapons for it and is so thin that it can use all landscape to hide its hull very well, making it indirectly tougher than a 5k HP Prowler.

    ->Want to be resistant to small arms and suppress infantry? Kobalt ANT.

    Prowler can do all these things but because of it's size and clumsiness you're unnecessarily gaining high attention and will die very quickly and with resources thrown out you could have put into a MAX for example.


    But another problem is for the Prowler to be effective it needs to land both shots and that probably won't be likely from far range, with this light tank concept.
    So maybe the short range breakthrough tank idea could be best. I know it's vague and that's because there are way too many ways it could turn out be.

    This current Prowler is a mess. Why would anyone need a tank like that if you have access to the Lightening?
    Lets get back to the real Prowler tank:
    ->It's lightly armored, over-sized, average speed, good maneuverability, and is armed with 2 low damage cannons.

    Where can you even use this type of tank?
  3. Demigan

    Your idea for a Prowler is OP as all hell.

    Imagine if we gave the Lightning the speed and physics of a Harasser and added 1000 health. Would be OP right? Now lets add a topgun, Barrage and improve its gun to the Prowler's AP gun for a mere 100 extra nanites. Even without the primary gun you would still have the most durable and powerful Vulcan harasser the game has to offer, add in the primary gun and Barrage and there's nothing stopping this tank. And its weird that the tactic you proclaim this new Prowler should be following is something the Prowler is already well able to do.

    The Prowler isnt missing anything and its not a mess. Its dual shots isnt a disadvantage, when firing at long range all tanks have a good chance to miss, but only the Prowler has two shots to dial in the range and start getting direct hits. In the meantime the recoil is so low that I even was able to post a video of me shooting a MAX at 100m and hitting both shots without needing to change my aim. It also has the highest base DPS of any tank with the option to boost that with Barrage.

    You can use the Prowler just about anywhere. Its DPS, its range, its CQC potential, its ability to quickly scoot across the terrain using maneuverability and speed to get where he needs to be, its health and armor are some of the highest of all ground vehicles, you get two shots to kill infantry with. To say you cant find a use is to admit you dont know how to drive tanks. Yes the Harasser can fulfill some of the Prowler's roles, as can the Lightning, as can the ANT, but only the Prowler can do all of them at the same time.


    I can get behind upgrading the experience of MBT combat as a whole, but not behind "my Prowler isnt useful and needs changing".
    • Up x 1
  4. karlooo


    This is the 2nd time you didn't read that concept thoroughly. I said remove stabilizer on the guns. Remove Barrage. Nerf HP, increase damage/speed....And its not like a Lightening with a top gun. It's a Lightening scaled 2.5 times more.

    Another thing is why would you buy a general use, overpriced, over-sized, over-complicated tank if you can buy a vehicle 1/3 its price for the specific role or a lightening which is IMO better suited for tank warfare, same in CQC. With the Viper you can deal 1500 damage and most likely not even get touched due to the size of the tank and speed.
    The Prowler can deal 1200 damage, is impossible to miss this tank, gains attention from all targets cause of this.
    You got the top gunner, bla bla. I'm not going to wait for somebody and honk till I get some random gunner to jump in. I just use the Ranger but still I don't find the Prowler worth the price.

    It's a general use, bastardized Lightening.
  5. karlooo

    Experimental weaponry is not a TR thing.
  6. Liewec123

    also when using tanks for AA which some people like to do, there is no better beast than an anchored AP prowler,
    not only does it have unrivalled velocity to make cracking those ESFs far easier, but each round can oneshot an ESF too!

    so compared to other tanks you have double the chances per reload to land the shot,
    and it is far easier due to the 50% increased velocity compared to lightning, vanguard and magrider AP.
    (375m/s vs 250m/s)
    • Up x 2
  7. Demigan

    I didnt miss the stabilizer but I forgot to mention it. At those speeds the stabilizer is a bonus, but you'll be jostling in and out of your elevation range anyway and focussing on firing shots at level ground anyway. So basically what you would get is either a buffed up Vulcan Harasser (its not going to have less health than that is it?) Or a buffed up Gatekeeper Harasser.

    The Prowler is a solid tank. Its general use means its a solid jack-of-all-trades. Its more like the HA: yes you can get a more specialized version but you could also just stick with something that can do those same roles either better or with the ability to switch roles on-the-fly.

    The Lightning and Prowler are different tanks. And each faction has people who say that their MBT is crap because its basically a more expensive Lightning or Harasser and that they pull more Harassers&Lightnings because of that. The NC has done this, the VS has done this and now you are doing it and asking for what is basically a larger Harasser. Which is weird since you complain that the Harasser currently is a cheaper better version of the Prowler and all you've done is take away the general purpose of a main battle tank in favor of a superior Harasser capability but still at 3x the cost of a Harasser.

    And if you want to use the Prowler 1/2 thats your choice, but dont complain that because you cant make it work suddenly the tank is worthless. Its not like the Prowler's performance has been lacking compared to the other MBT's! So if you think the Prowler is bad, then you should think the Magrider and Vanguard are bad too, and you should be looking at changing all 3.
  8. karlooo


    That's actually a decent strength of the Prowler, can fight both Armor and Air effectively, but I still don't think it's worth the cost.
  9. karlooo


    The problem is what you mentioned, it's jack-of-all-trades.
    ->The Vanguard has got a powerful shield, allowing it to counter enemies engage and also good for storming heavily defended positions.
    ->The Magrider is the unique levitating tank with a fixed gun. Can be used in ways tracked vehicles couldn't do.
    ->The Prowler has got 2 guns, which causes a bit of complications (cause it's not the standard) and you get an ability which allows you to shoot the guns faster, but at the end both factions MBTs counter your engage lol, by either shielding or turbo away.
  10. Demigan

    -the Prowler has the highest DPS, it has two shots to divide that DPS over making it easier to dial in the range, how that is a "complication" I dont know. Its the fastest sprinter due to its excellent best-in-class acceleration (MBT class that is) and speed but its also the fastest when maneuvering the battlefield (the Magrider has the most excess but isnt the fastest). Being a jack-of-all-trades isnt bad when part of your kit is still better than everything else.

    Lets rephrase your last sentence while I'm at it: at the end the Prowler's faster gun counters the shielding or turboing away of the Magrider.
    Although you must be scraping the barrel. Magriders rarely turbo away and when they do its because they were out of position and need to desperately reach some cover they cant reach in time by strafing, at which point you've usually won the battle anyway.
  11. KhlorosTesero

    So, not going through the entire thread, but IMO, outta all the tanks, the Prowler is the most unforgiving, and has a skill curve akin to that of playing eve online. But the issue is, even the best of prowler drivers only end up being on par with other MBT.

    The main issue of the powler is in order for it to be effective you have to land both shots which is not nearly as easy as it sounds, couple this with the fact that he reload does not start until both shells are fired and you basically half the DPS of the weapon if you are only able to land one shot at a time out of the two, which is horrible compared to the NC MBT which can and only needs to land one hit to do massive damage, or the Vanu, which ave the mobility master.

    IMO! which you dont have to take this at all, but what i think would fix the prowler, is make it so each barrel loads individually. So When you start an engagement you fire off your 2 rounds back to back, but then from that point on, until you stop firing it effectually acts like a fully auto tank canon, just very slow firing. This change would very much fit with the flavor of TR, which is high RoF, and bring it in line with the other MBT capabilities.
    • Up x 1
  12. Pikachu

    It's strange that the devs bothered to add so many details and explanations to the concept art when those things have little meaning in the game. The spaag version reminds me of the british falcon.

    [IMG]

    The prowler concept also reminds me of some fan made 3d alterations to the prowler.
    [IMG]

    [IMG]
    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  13. Demigan

    The Magrider and Vanguard are unforgiving: you miss, you've lost all your DPS. The Prowler on the other hand can afford to miss more shots but still be ahead in the DPS game compared to the other two.
    The landing of both shots is rarely a problem. Its about as easy to land any hits at all as with the Magrider or Vanguard amd with the almost non-existant recoil all you have to do is thr exact same things as the other two tanks, but you are allowed to miss more shots and have an easier time getting the correct range on long-range targets. The Prowler has no disadvantage in accuracy no matter how many shots he's got, and anyone with half a brain can use the extra shots and higher average DPS to their advantage. If you miss half your shots with a Prowler, then you would also miss half your shots with a Vanguard or a Magrider. Its as simple as that.

    Prowler AP: 3,5 second reload unupgraded. 0,5 second refire time between shots, and 0,5 seconds before reload starts. That makes for a cycle of 4,5 seconds for 2 shots+ reload of the next 2 shots. 600 damage per shot for a whopping total of 1200 damage.
    Effective DPS: 267

    Vanguard AP unupgraded has 3,75 second reload and 850 damage per shot.
    Effective DPS: 226

    Prowler with your system:
    Immediately after the first shot it starts reloading, as does the second one. This means its full firing cycle takes as long as its reload speed of 3,5 seconds.
    Effective DPS: 343.

    Thats a 28% increase in DPS compared to its old value. And 51% more than the Vanguard has. Are you really so bad at the Prowler, which incidentally hasnt got inferior performance, that you need that much extra damage to make it work?
  14. KhlorosTesero

    And thats fine, im not saying you are wrong.

    All im saying that in my opinion, the prowler is the least forgiving outa of the 3 tanks. The mag rider has mobility to fall back on if it misses, in fact is can out manuver any tank, and is imo the best of all 3 because at any time while engaging you can mantain your mobility while always keeping your front armor on target while fighting. The NC tank while only having one shot has a very powerful shot and its a lot easier to land a single shot from that, then landing both prowler shot, while moving even.

    From what i have seen, what i have played, and expereinced, its my opinion that outta all 3, the prowler is the least forging of the MBT, it can be powerful, but only if you are dead on with your shots. There is a reason you dont see a thread for, "Man the prowlers is so over powered." or threads about how the magrider or NC tank is under powered.
    • Up x 1
  15. Crayv

    We basically already have something like that in the game... and it can fly. It's called the Liberator.
    • Up x 2
  16. Demigan

    You must not have been paying attention then. The Vanguard IS underpowered due to its inflexibility. Its only advantage is a higher amount of hits it can take, in everything else its worse off. And the advantage of extra health is only useful while you get hit, while the advantages of the Prowler and Magrider are always useful. Especially the Prowlers higher DPS, its dual shots that arent a big downside in any way shape or form, its high speed, its high acceleration, its mid-range maneuverability all helps this vehicle. Just about the worst you can say about it is "its blocky", but that is both an advantage and a disadvantage. When attacked from the front it presents the largest target, when attacked from the side it is the smallest. Considering how the most common tactic in the game revolves around popping up behind cover, firing shots and going back into cover that isnt the biggest drawback for a Prowler.

    The amount of "MBT X is OP!!!" Has been very low for a long time now, instead its favored by "MBT X is UP!!!" threads and when the NC complains its more of a package deal about how the faction is treated. Such as many of the "upgrades" being effective nerfs (the new Vanguard shield, the Numbnutz reactor, several iterations of the Rocklet rifle before they made it blant, several iterations of a new topgun etc), or many of the new weapons like the NSX being blatantly UP for the NC (and surprisingly the Assault rifle being an OP murder gun).
  17. karlooo


    Ok we keep on repeating the same stuff, everyone has a good point but lets now talk about faction lore.

    The Terrain Republic is the oldest empire and is the originator of the other two empires. They leverage their currency to build up a very powerful military to have strict control over the colonial citizens and I guess they pay back the debt by plundering land with their armies.
    So basically the Terrain Republic is supposed to have the mightiest military with the newest technology.
    --------------------------------------------
    The New Conglomerate are rebels that divided from the Terrain Republic. This group doesn't like their oppressive behavior towards citizens. They are fighting against enslavement of humanity, they are fighting against evil. Their enemies are TR and VS.

    "Their methodology is to achieve victory by any means necessary and they are not afraid to use experimental weaponry, guerrilla tactics or unconventional warfare if the need arises."
    "Their equipment might not be the prettiest on the battlefield, but the New Conglomerate's philosophy is that, so long as a weapon shoots straight, it will get the job done. This means to the Freedom Fighters that there is an incredibly diverse range of weapons and gadgets to work with."

    Guerrilla warfare is a form of irregular warfare in which small groups of combatants, such as paramilitary personnel, armed civilians, or irregulars, use military tactics including ambushes, sabotage, raids, petty warfare, hit-and-run tactics, and mobility, to fight a larger and less-mobile traditional military.

    Harassers fit with this faction very well, light Assault with C4 should be uniquely an NC strategy. This faction was supposed to have a diverse mix of weapons, like captured VS weapons, some older TR machines, guns because they were part of the TR. Some crazy, unconventional designs.
    -------------------------------------------


    At the end NC gets the more advanced weaponry compared to TR (excluding shotguns). TR gets an unconventional and unpractical tank, their high RPM gets reduced by FPS. And everybody gets to have the best NS weapons and vehicles.
    This is a complete mess.

    In fact if NC lore would fit with their gameplay and also their infantry wouldn't look like some idiots with NERF armor, I would be an NC player. It sounds like a lot of fun. Using unconventional weapons, tactics to win battle against the more advanced factions, fighting for freedom.
    Instead we get this mess...
  18. Liewec123

    I always feel sorry for Demi in threads like these,
    Whether it's people saying that the current state of NC max is fine, or NC weapons are OP because of the 200 dmg,
    Or the good old "Vanguard OP".

    Demi always spends the lengthy time required to gather stat comparisons and performance data,
    And when he posts all of it, which clearly shows that he is correct, people just shrug it off,
    They continue to tell us about their opinion and feelings!

    Facts trump feelings, the stats do not lie.
    And when both the raw stat comparisons AND the performance data are against you folks, there is no debate, it's over.
    And the evidence clearly shows that vanguard is the worst MBT by a rather large margin,
    with magrider usually as top dog and prowler occasionally challenging it, but usually sitting in 2nd spot.

    Anything said once demi posts the actual data is just feelings, the data has spoken!

    Anyway, sorry to interrupt now please continue asking for buffs XD
  19. karlooo


    Numbers are something but it's not everything. And what numbers, you need to be specific.
    Peoples feelings matter a lot, in everything.
    I've noticed VS has the most number of highly experienced players. They prob had a feeling that their faction was being ignored or misunderstood and decided to switch to the VS, which are said to gain most attention.

    I above you told my feeling on the TR faction, what it should represent to me and that may give you an idea of why I hate the tank.

    Also somebody else stated that the tank is unforgiving, that's something I agree with too. The numbers are good only if you play perfectly.
  20. Liewec123

    you know what numbers,
    he's given you statistical comparisons for the weapons, showing that prowler has vastly superior DPS,
    and that misses are less damning.

    and someone else beat him to it this time but he usually posts the vehicle KPUs (how many other vehicles a tank kills before it dies)
    showing that prowler usually hovers around the middle,
    with magrider almost always performing the best and vanguard almost always performing the worst.

    these are the stats, prowler is not the worst MBT.

    and the stats say that any posts about tank balance should be for vanguard buffs,
    (or magrider nerfs, but wrel would never do that.)

    so lets talk about balancing the ACTUAL worst MBT? :)
    personally i'd make Nimitz Reactor a constantly regenerating shield, not stopped by damage.
    (currently its an inferior NAR, added only to pretend that NC received something
    when TR got rampart shield and VS got intergrated magburner, nearly a year later Numbnutz Reactor is still useless.)
    • Up x 1