[Suggestion] Maybe stop being VS biased @devs?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by vonRichtschuetz, Dec 13, 2019.

  1. Trebb

    I have to dispute this point, because every single VA HA tells me this is not OP. Apparently the reason my death screen is almost always TWO people shooting me with the beetelgeuse is because it's not OP. Why would everyone use something if it's not good? Surely someone on the internets would not... gasp...LIE?
    • Up x 1
  2. Demigan

    Yes, and every single VS said that ZOE wasn't OP. Or the old PPA. Or the old Saron. Or...
  3. Vanguard540


    Without mentionning the big damage penalty that makes this perk trash and not meta at all. If it was meta you wouldn't need to explain it here.
  4. Vanguard540

    You also "forgot" to write SEMI in front of sniper and didn't talk about the damage penalty.

    Here's someone's less biased blog. You can listen to Iridar here : http://www.kivikasvo.fi/iridar.net/iridar.net/planetside2/weapons/sniper-rifles/index.html

    Biased boi QQ
    Bullet Drop


    Bullets in PlanetSide 2 are affected by Gravity:

    • Most primary weapons: 11.25
    • Sniper Rifles: 7.5 (33% less)
    • VS Semi Auto Sniper Rifles and Phaseshift: 0
  5. Liewec123

    phaseshift can be BOTH, it has alt fire modes, but i wouldn't consider using the semi mode anyway,
    which is why i referred to it as a bolt action, because in its high power mode it can OHK on headshots like other bolt actions.
  6. Vanguard540

    Phaseshift reaches lowest damage at 84m has a 550m/s velocity.
  7. Campagne

    Unstable ammunition doesn't affect bullet damage, it reduces headshot damage multipliers by 80%. AKA it makes headshots less good.

    However, it makes bodyshots and headshots considerably easier to achieve against difficult moving targets and in a practical engagement can potentially reduce TTK by artificially reducing the number of missed shots while an opponent would have to match or exceed the same accuracy unassisted. Or get headshots faster.

    As Liewic said, it's actually both a semi-auto and "bolt-action" (semi-auto with two shots and more damage).

    It has no drop at all, which is mathematically infinitely better than any other rifle. It can also equip a suppressor without additional projectile drop.

    Damage wise, it's only when in semi-auto mode that the minimum damage reaches 334 at 85m. (Not 84m).

    The damage model goes from 400 at 10m/334 at 85 with a headshot multiplier of 2x to 500 at 10m/350 at 400m with a headshot multiplier a of 2.2x. Magazine size goes from 6 to 2.

    If it didn't have a relatively low velocity it'd probably be one of the best sniper rifles in the game, holding almost every other advantage.
  8. Vanguard540

    How do you kill someone 1V1 without relying on full headshot damage nowadays? You really need that damage to be effective now this is not 2014. How do you track running targets if your bullets are slow? The slower the bullet the easier to juke. There are reasons why they're not meta. These gimmicky toys are far less rewarding than Tomoe, Naginata, Daimyo these are the real beasts and everybody has it.

    I'd really want you to record your "OP" gameplay as VS facing HA mains with the unstable ammo on the canis for instance.
    Landing headshots on MOVING targets with the phaseshift beyond 200m.

    If you need to nerf unstable ammo, go for it I wouldn't care less, you're just preventing new players to get a chance at the game.
    These weapons some of you seem to complain about, just remove them. I'm not the one who will miss them.

    The spectre, good for learning or to hold lines inside buildings, but once you can land headshots you realise you could go for a single shot with a regular sniper rifle.

    So that's what I really don't understand here. Why complain about these gimmicky weapons?
    Meanwhile Empire specific BASR for NC : 850m/s with the high skillcap able to one shot HS up to 364m. Noone complains about it. Why? Because it's a hard to use weapon, but people who know how to use it, these are the real killing machines.

    But some complain because they got hit by the phaseshift while standing still. Anyone can kill you if you stand still or don't juke hard enough when you get shot at with low velocity rifles. And if the shooter still hits, sorry but the shooter got lucky or he actually predicted your pathing. Or he is in close range, and playing a high risk high reward style.

    What do you want VS to benefit from other than heat magazines or bulletdrop? Honestly anything else might do. Learning curve would be harder for new players but that's it. You would actually buff VS by giving it something else than this kind of faction bonus.

    VS is a very gimmicky faction cool for new players. You're not a veteran if you complain about that kind of arsenal.
  9. Campagne

    The average headshot ratio for most automatic weapons is about 25%, ranging form ~20% to ~30%. Given this information, I would not think it difficult to kill someone with only bodyshots as this is the most common situation for the majority of players. Especially when it's easier than ever to get those bodyshots.

    Unstable ammo doesn't impact projectile velocity at all, and the only weapons which currently have access to UA have very typical projectile velocities for the weapon class. If the user is missing shots on moving targets with these weapons the gun is not at fault.

    The Tomoe and Naginata are both pretty crap, and Tomoe, Naginata, and Daimyo, according to Dasanfall, all see very little to very average use comparatively.

    I've not called it "OP," so please don't try to strawman me. Regardless, I could have made a montage of using an MKV against HA-mains with only headshots in direct combat. You act as if UA makes the gun worthless. Secondly, I've used bolt-actions and even semi-autos quite extensively and quite well, if I do say so myself. Heashoting a moving target at 200 meters isn't the most difficult thing in the game, especially when projectile drop doesn't need to be accounted for as well as leading like any other rifle.

    If new players required U to get into the game, we'd not have many new players. We all joined and played without it, didn't we? Regardless, never mentioned nerfing anything either. I'm just describing reality.

    The weapons themselves aren't gimmicky. UA ammo provides a meaningful combat advantage for the vast majority of players, and for up to 200 meters the Phaseshift is one of the best rifles available.

    No one complains about the Railjack because it's junk. It may have a projectile velocity of 850m/s, but with the 0.2s firing delay the time between puling the trigger and the bullet landing is longer than a standard Longshot all the way out to about 200 meters. While it may kill with one headshot past 300 meters unlike the Longshot, this is almost never even possible. Infantry rarely render beyond 300 meters anyway.

    It's not a difficult weapon to use, it's just annoying, in my opinion. A Longshot with skill can out-shoot the Railjack time and time again. This is especially true in a sniper duel, because the firing delay means the opponent can aim, uncloak, fire, and recloak in the time it would take to aim at the newly apparent target and fire. I've been there and done that, and believe me the faster a player can fire the better.

    550m/s is only 100m/s lower than the tier 4 bolt-actions (Longshot/Rams .50/Parallax). It's really not that low, tied with the tier 1 bolt-actions (Bolt-Driver/M77-B/XM98). But without projectile drop, it's easier to hit moving targets than these three other rifles, which do not struggle to hit.

    The VS just don't need special boosts out of nowhere, but they're not worse off with or without them. "Gimmicks" aren't inherently detrimental as you seem to think.

    By that logic I'm the veteran defending the "gimmicks" and you're not, as you complain about "that kind of arsenal?"
    • Up x 1
  10. LordKrelas

    Originally the Ammo had full head-shot Multiplier.
    As well, When you don't miss thanks to the Ammo, but you can make your opponent miss - it becomes very one-sided.
    As hitting your target reliably, and constantly, is a lot better than Missing & getting some Headshots - when you also get head-shots, in addition to rarely ever not hitting.

    VS's projectiles are not 'that' slow, that they aren't reliable.
    Unless VS has managed to have the highest effectiveness of their Directive LMG & Orion, while everyone could walk around their bullets - and somehow not be the Loser for the entire game's Lifespawn in continent-Locks.

    Canis Release. That went well.
    A full head-shot Multiplier on an SMG with that Enlarged-hitbox Ammo, that then was nerfed hard , as the Gun relied on the near constant head-shots, rather than its own actual stats.

    Phaseshift is an infinite ammo weapon, that only has to consider velocity.
    Railjack is an NC weapon with an entire firing delay, and only 1 shot, that contends with Velocity, gravity, and the mentioned delay.
    TR has the Trap - That should sum that up.

    If new Players for the VS, lacking that Unstable-Ammo, are denied.
    NC Newbies are dealing with the Gauss Saw as their starter weapon - And apparently aren't denied a chance.
    While having to fight TR with Carvs, and VS with Orions: Both weapons that are close-range Focused LMGS, against the Long-range focused Gauss Saw -- Which demands accuracy, fire-control, and needs you to land head-shots in triplicate to survive.

    The Spectre, is not a crap gun among those Auto's - TR's newbies, have bullet-drop to deal with.
    Why TR & VS aren't using Bolt-actions is a good question, for their defaults.


    Why does VS complain about Jackhammers, or NC AI Maxes? They're gimicky short-ranged.
    Why did anyone complain about the Vanguard Shield Gimick?
    Oh maybe in the same vein as the VS Shotguns of Old, where they had no bullet-drop on their slugs, the Saruon.
    Same with TR's Original Gatekeeper.
    NC's mentioned weapon; Firing-Delayed Single-Shot Sniper rifle.
    When your opponent has an Infinite-Ammo multi-firemode Bullet-dropless Sniper rifle, that even Wrel claimed is Hitscan at shorter ranges, you tend to Think about that instead of TR's Trap, or NC's Highly-delayed Sniper shot, who's perk is range.

    VS is the only faction with a consistent 'gimmick'
    Infinite Ammo is only their entire Directive Tree, on Battle-rifles even.
    They have Hitbox Enlarging Bullets on rifles, SMGs, and MAX weapons now as well.
    Lacking Bullet-Drop is also standard, past the Shotguns where it got removed, and the majority of Sniper Rifles.
    They have Literal Beam-Weapons for their MAX & HA classes.
    This includes having TR's Ramping-up RPM Tricks, NC's Armor-Piercing Tricks, as well.

    TR has no directive perk for their weaponry.
    NC has had 1 directive perk, and it was the God-Saw.
    VS gained that directive perk for the Spiker, a normal pistol, but without the negative side-effects.

    In the latest Updates;

    VS gained a 3-shot Kill Infinite-Ammo Bullet-dropless Battle-Rifle, 2 Weapons with Unstable-Ammo (of 1, was NC's anchor)
    And their Carbine is some weird shotgun like thing.
    (Their Max also gained unstable ammo)
    Their Magrider gained all the advantages showed in PTS; Multi-directional boost, Built-in level-1 boost.

    TR gained, an Explosive-shot LMG, a confused SMG with a burst-mechanic.
    An RPM Scaling Carbine, as well.
    Their MAX gained nothing.
    The Prowler gained from PTS, instead of the Advertised Shield enhancement for Lockdown, they got a Massive Hitbox sphere.

    NC gained, an low-usage VS LMG, an SMG that can't Hipfire but holds Cyclone's Damage Tier, an Carbine that has 5 Bullets before a long-reload that deals more-damage (But always needed 6 rounds to kill) - with attachements that debuff reloading time for bullets that don't have the buff.
    Their MAX has lost their entire DPS, lost Slugs, and now has DPS equal to VS\TR AI Maxes at 40 meters, while the NC is at 5 meters.
    The Vanguard, gained the option of using a new system that Debuffs the Tank, by removing the effectiveness of Any repair system - When the Vanguard was already Slotted to have No new Perks or changes, or anything in the PTS for half of its running time.


    And the Future PTS visuals for Vehicle weapons,
    TR got a Better Longer-ranged Vulcan with Explosives.
    VS got a charged-Laser Cannon with piercing.
    NC got a weapon that has a firing delay, and deals less damage than NS Halberds. (3 Second firing-delay single-shot)


    If someone doesn't appreciate the sheer volume of VS options..
    Like the mass amounts of Splash Damage, Tank Mobility, Infinite-Ammo Weaponry everywhere, Lack of Bullet-drop, and Easy-to-use Weaponry for their New & Older players, With constant DEV ENHANCEMENTS of their Exisiting EQUIPMENT..
    They should switch to TR or NC, who only get Nerfs, never Additions to their old equipment.
    VS maxes got upgraded when VS gained Unstable Ammo. They gained their new mechanics in numerous old weapons.
    NC Got hit with a Hammer. They did not gain any other changes to existing weapons, or mechanics.
    TR was left untouched - They didn't perform better, and they haven't gained any of their new mechanics.

    VS literally gets Arsenal updates to old weapons, for new tricks.
    Only VS.
  11. Skraggz

    Checking voidwell for the last 3 months Gladius and Canis run hand and hand on performance with gladius holding a slight lead. While Jackel was about half the performance.... while I get where you guys are coming from the easy to use ammo is not breaking that gun.

    https://voidwell.com/ps2/oracle?sta...03925&startDate=2019-06-14&endDate=2019-12-14


    Only thing I can find that could be percieved as an issue is headshot kill% on canis is lower... but with that ammo option of course it would be.
    • Up x 2
  12. Vanguard540

    I've not called it "OP," so please don't try to strawman me.
    "The VS just don't need special boosts out of nowhere, but they're not worse off with or without them. "Gimmicks" aren't inherently detrimental as you seem to think."

    Who said VS needs a buff?
    Because I'm not using certain already auraxed user friendly weapons anymore, because they offer no reward or challenge and found better toys with more skillcap, does it mean I'm complaining about these auraxed weapons?

    "so please don't try to strawman me."

    The irony.

    "By that logic I'm the veteran defending the "gimmicks" and you're not, as you complain about "that kind of arsenal?""
    Kevindropsthemicatschool.mp4
  13. Vanguard540


    Tomoe

    0.24 to 0.4 TTK depending on target's HP if you're able to HS.
    Is this whole post a troll?

    Especially as an infil the tomoe was surprisingly easier to aurax than the artemis. Just look at someone, where he wants to go, where he comes from. Move accordingly, shoot him as he runs in a straight line.

    This post is not objective, is this a reddit troll post? x)
  14. Campagne

    These two statements aren't contradictory in any way. Why'd you put them together? They kinda just support each other. The VS aren't any better or worse with their niche equipment, and that equates to saying the VS are overpowered?

    |
    Here's an actual contradiction to the above:

    The VS should benefit from something else, because the current heat mechanics and lack of projectile drop aren't good enough? Anything else would do? But yeah, you are in no way implying the VS needs any buffs at all.

    Regardless, you're trying to pass off another strawman. I've not accused you of asking for any buffs, as I said I've merely describing reality.

    So please don't try to strawman me.

    Irony indeed.

    The Tomoe relies on a constant stream of headshots only to achieve a very standard headshot TTK yet holds a below average bodyshot TTK. In "real world" engagements the TTK is going to be much longer all around and no legitimate player is going to land every shot on the head in 0.2s.

    Secondly, if a player has the skill to consistently and constantly maintain a lock on his opponent's head, the class he's playing already has multiple better rifles for the same purpose. A good old 1x-4x bolt-action will kill faster and much more consistently. There is an obvious reason why "CQC bolters" is a common term but no one ever mentions the Tomoe.

    Hilariously, once again someone has cut out almost the entirety of my posts yet says it's not objective. If only I had a dollar... If I was not objective about everything that didn't make your final cut, why are you only quoting bits and pieces?
  15. Orakel

    Almost everything @ VS side got nerfed during the last years. People was crying about "old" PPA and it got nerfed to an useless weapon. People was crying about Canis and it got nerfed. Almost every lmg @ VS side got nerfed during the last years.

    TR/NC complaining and VS gets nerfed !! You clowns maybe should think about VS mostly playing underpoped ..
  16. Vanguard540

    I say VS arsenal has beginner friendly weapons.
    He gets "diz wepun noob, need bigger wepun"

    You cannot discuss with that kind of person. He's only understanding what he wants, will get his own interpretation.
    Not here to discuss about the current state of the game, more likely here to rebuild shatered ego.

    You talk about faction trait such as NC - Heavy damage TR - RoF, you say anything else than bulletdrop or gadget effects on weapons would buff VS too much, the guy will get something completely different because it suits his agenda.

    Well **** it, there's a reason why this post is here, you can make suggestions or you can complain and rebuild your ego from losestreaks IG complaining about VS and annoying people trying to tell you NS weapons are better.
  17. YellowJacketXV

    *NC and VS complaining about which faction gets nerfed.*
    Me, a glorious TR main:
    [IMG]

    Whichever side gets nerfed, my faction wins. Keep going.
  18. Campagne

    If ever I could have a discussion with someone and not have my position blatantly disregarded in favour of a paper-thin strawman, that'd be great.

    As I said, I've only presented the reality of the weapons you've listed. You listed objectively false information regarding them and formulated an opinion based on that misinformation. I've not argued the balance of factions, just listed the actuality of existing statements.

    The reason why the thread exists in the exact opposite of your reasoning. I'm sorry reality doesn't fit your preconceived notions.
  19. Liewec123

    Pounders, gatekeeper, Vulcan, Striker, Anchormode. ;)
  20. Scroffel5

    Yo, Campagne and Vanguard, your arguments are lost in every reply you make, and they are probably stupid.