What's a good op NC max build?

Hold on, you were talking about Hacksaws AFTER the nerf before. Now you are talking about BEFORE the nerf or are you proclaiming Hacksaws are OP after the nerf?

They were OP before the nerf. I think they're adequate when combined with the shield after the nerf. You've heard what I have to say, and we've all heard dozens of times your argument, so we can all just agree to disagree.

I'm gonna say what I have been saying for years now: As long as shotguns keep this philosophy that they have to have the effective range of a polearm while also having to deal with ammo and reloading they will never be balanced.

They are practically worthless in ranges where smgs can still reliably hipfire. That means they have to have insane amount of damage to make up for it. This leads to a binary gameplay situation where they simply destroy up close and are helpless at range.

They want shotguns to be balanced, they should make them more like the Tengu. That way they have slightly less range than the other MAXes but also only slightly more dps.

Yea, no. ********.

Check the graph again, you would literally have to be flanking them for an entire 6 seconds and then EVEN THEN, they still outdps you unless both were using blueshifts. You were either getting repaired or they were already damaged or it wasn't even 2v1, it was "these morons are completely clueless to me shooting them" which at best, even I can make a flaregun work under those circumstances. Plus, on that note, the hacksaws, the supposed high DPS at CQC variant of the NC's arsenal does less damage than all but the blueshifts which are used for sniping infantry anyhow.

I do not understand how someone can be so blinded by stupidity when confronted with math, I do not see how someone can look at that graph and say NC maxes are ok because shield. Shield is not godmode, it is not to make bullets land, it's not going to earn you certs, it is simply a state in which you are walking and not taking damage from people in one direction that can't aim around the shield. Do not give me horse**** based one singleton experiences for the sake of explaining balance. "I've killed ESFs with the flaregun, so therefore the flaregun is OP!" Next you're gonna tell me that they can snipe just as well as mercies and blueshifts because they have more damage at close range.

Calm down dude. And read a little closer. I was talking pre-nerf. The math back then was solid. At the point blank range where I was, Hacksaws delt more dps to the body than any AI guns TR/VS had if they were landing all headshots, as if that were even possible. Back then, you were talking close to 3x the dps if we're talking body shots. It was nuts, and y'all are off your rockers if you STILL don't see that.

3x the dps at spitting distance, absolutely no range viability (without slugs), long reloads and a fraction of the sustained fire.
all they had to do was remove slugs.
sounds like balance to me, a monster at spitting distance but absolutely dreadful at everything else in exchange.

but now they do similar damage to TR and VS at spitting distance (this cqc damage was the ONLY thing they had.),
they now have even worse range than before (a hilaaaaarious 60% damage drop off by 20 freaking meters, not even a room.)
and STILL have long reloads and a fraction of the sustained fire,
STOP TRYING TO DEFEND THIS NERF, IT IS INDEFENSIBLE, STOP TRYING TO PLAY IT DOWN.

they are similar in one aspect to TR and VS, cqc damage, in EVERY other aspect they are vastly worse.
THAT IS NOT BALANCE.

I would suggest getting gorgons just to have an all around weapon. They aren't the best for mowing down entire rooms, but they're consistent and you can get the odd vehicle without having to switch guns.
But I don't play NC much, or at all I suppose so not sure how they compare to other loadouts.

Not when the game revolves a ound close quarters combat in point rooms. NC really needs eded this hard kick in the nuts. All that's left is nerfing VS and TR's Maxes a little. Or a lot, the game would be better for it.

But if the game revolves around CQC combat in point rooms wouldnt the following be true:

MAX CQC weapons on the TR and VS are the most used MAX weapons.
CQC weapons in general see the most use.
Shotguns being the most CQC oriented weapons (especially pre-nerf) would see the most use of all.

I know shotguns arent the most used weapons and CQC weapons are less used compared to the run-of-the-mill mid-range weapons. Also the playerbase complained about OHK shotguns and would in the same breath name slugs. Weird that the ranged option for shotguns is named so often if the dangerous thing is CQC right?

So why oh why are CQC oriented weapons and especially CQC specific weapons left by the wayside if the game is supposed to be centered around CQC combat?
Could anyone ever answer that question? Anyone of the people who keep claiming it all comes down to CQC pointroom fights? Why are CQC weapons not used if they should be the most important weapon class in the game? Anyone? I'm just repeating the question a few times as it seems invisible otherwise.

Anyone? Why are CQC weapons not used much compared to midrange weapons if the game is about CQC pointroom fights?

The cheasy solution to most problems is dropping a gal full of Maxes on a point. With what? Close range dps. There's zero point in mid/long range trading when a room is packed with bad guys and you need bodies on it. If revives and instant spawn weren't so readily available, then yeah, dropping a target here and there at range would work. But the only way to really beat the enemy is to get all up in there and kill them all. Everyone puts laser sights and soft point ammo on those "mid range" weapons for a reason.

MAX galaxy crashes dont happen often, maybe during server smashes. Also even during server smashes where almost everything happens via Gal drop, what weapons do they pick? Primarily shotgun HA's according to you? Because as far as I can tell the most used weapons are mid-range. Strange how the midrange, with or without SPA and lasers, are used more in all instances than the actual dedicated CQC weapons right?

So again I have to ask you: why arenr CQC oriented weapons used as much? You told us a story about MAX crashes but nothing about why the shotguns and CQC weapons are less in use than midrange options.

Again: why are CQC weapons used less than midrange weapons if the game is supposed to be about CQC pointroom combat?

Because of headshot multipliers, laser sights, nanoweave, and soft point ammo. You get a quicker ttk at close range than all but pump actions, and you don't give up any mid. If there wasn't so much overlap on close to medium range guns, which I'm not arguing against, you'd see a TON more cqb weapons on point holds.

And just because max crashes don't happen often doesn't mean they're not the beat tool. I frequently olatoon/squad lead and rarely call for Maxes because I have a personal disdain for them. I'll only call a max crash when the enemy simply has too many of their own Maxes on point. Plenty of other guys feel the same. That unit just ruins fights for both sides, similar to air locks and rep Valks when they were OP.

Even prenerf I highly doubt that. That would require both maxes not even paying attention to you, not having support, or you had an engie. Prenerf it took around 3 seconds for scatters at absolute point blank, even at the worst of DPS weapons for maxes (aka blueshifts) this would mean that both of them could've killed you after you got one max. This would also mean that the other max didn't choose to create space but instead try being at close range with something that has a shotgun on each arm. I do not conclude stupidity on another party to be grounds for a nerf either.

Yea, no. People use medrange guns because most of the game isn't just one tiny room. Having an entire unit that only functions in those closed spaces is like having....I actually can't make an analogy to that. It's just so incredibly limiting that there's nothing in human creation I can actually compare it to. Maybe a screwdriver that only works on tuesdays? That sounds about right.

That's stupid. If you're not utilizing every tool that the game has to offer, what makes you the chief aficionado on game balance? You have a disdain for them based on what? A few fights? Some max crashes? Butchering an entire portion of the game just makes it feel more and more like a bad battlefield, in which I think I'd rather play battlefield.

Like only being able to use a snowmobile as a primary means of transportation?
Using a flip phone to text? (No flame to all flip phone users, I actually preferred my flip phone)

Idk if theses are any better lol

Ok so you are saying that midrange weapons are simply superior because they dont sacrifice much in CQC and still have midrange.

Again, all this means is that even though midrange weapons sacrifice CQC damage, that mid-range capability is pretty damn important.

Also SPA extends the miminum damage range allowing it to be more effective at CQC at a longer range, while the 10% velocity reduction isnt a big problem for midrange combat as it doesnt become a problem until the far end of midrange to longrange for most weapons. And while the minimum damage starts at the same distance the SPA will deal a bit more damage at every range before that than a non-SPA counterpart. So SPA basically reduces the CQC disadvantage while giving up little power or capabilities.
Additionally SPA is mostly available for CQC oriented weapons and the other options are no ammo type or HVA which makes the damage falloff start sooner and end later. Kind of a nobrainer there unless you intend to do exclusive mid to long range combat if you can select SPA and HVA simultaneously at all.

And hey, the VS/TR MAX now has the same CQC damage as the NC but they have midrange! I wonder how those midrange weapons do next to all those midrange weapons we see almost everywhere...?

And again, since midrange weapons seem to be the premier weapons, why are CQC weapons not used as much in a game supposedly about CQC pointroom fights?

You're normally better at reading than this.... Because top tier mid range weapons kill just as efficiently up close, thanks to all their hip fire goodies you can attach, letting you chain headshots. If nanoweave was removed and the headshot multiplier lowered on automatics, shotguns would be a very competitive choice for point holds/tanks.

And again, where is the huge advantage is CQC weaponry if midrange weapons sacrifice so little? And on top of that, since the VS and TR MAX's are now equal in CQC to the NC MAX but still have actual midrange capabilities the NC MAX is simply an inferior platform period.

Maxes are the most balanced they've ever been. Go ahead and argue for a tiny buff, but crying like the sky is falling is simply absurd.

This is just categorically untrue.

Prior to the nerf NC MAXes didn't do everything better and now now they do everything worse. They are pretty much objectively further from balance than ever before.

Your personal vendetta against NC MAXes isn't helping the issue. Don't get me wrong here either, I'm all for nerfing both the remaining MAXes to this level too, but the devs clearly don't intend on doing so.