VS OP?

I've seen threads of NC being OP, I've even seen posts of TR being OP, but I've never seen a VS being OP as of late, are they due for a bit of a buff to bring them in par?

below 30% average worldpop would suggest so

I am pretty sure all the "DIS OP, THAT OP" - stuff is absolutly worthless in comparison what cooperative teamplay does in comparison. Throwing more bodies at it is allways a solution (aka zerg), but i also want to include small scale tactical gameplay here...

Oh don't worry, there's always been more than enough "VS OP" threads on theses forums.

VS have certainly been hit with plenty of nerfs but they have tended to be a bit heavy-handed and then left to rot - Zoe & PPA are historical examples, Lancer looks like it's going the same way.

Mind you TR have also experienced this with the likes of the Gatekeeper (but still have genuinely easy to use and useful stuff like the Vulcan).

NC don't seem to have been hit quite as hard - even the i-win shield went from godly to still useful. The Mjolnir which was goddam awful for ages has been buffed to really useful (now the best close range) and the extended no-deploy zones has effectively buffed the usefulness of the Phoenix.

Overall i'd say that NC has had it quite good lately - which may not be helping the NC overpop (last night on Cobalt they were the largest population on BOTH open continents by some margin). I'm guessing there were even more in Koltyr ! That queue would take a long long time to go down...

well the ones with the true results on what needs a buff or not is Daybreak, they have all the numbers. All we can do is hope is that VS gets a unnerf or a boost in some areas, i personally play as NC.

Saron-HRB is actually pretty OP. Zero projectile drop, while still being able to reliably kill infantry. If it was annoying being sniped by the old gatekeeper, why did they give the same old sniping treatment to the saron? Its shots may be slower, but they can still snipe just as well. Strafing, sniping tanks... yeah, I think that might be a little too much. Buff VS? No. There's even other weapons they have, (I think NC has a similar one) that have a 143 @ 845 RPM damage model. Despite the accuracy and magazine-sizes, those weapons have higher DPS than most TR weapons. Serpent V92, I think it was.

*slow blink*
i think that is the first time in over 3 years that i have heard someone claim that the saron is good against infantry

You're thinking of the Serpent and GD-7F - similar in many ways and very low TTK. TR don't have anything directly comparable (Lynx is probably the closest with the highest RPM of all but a damage tier lower) - although the Cycler matches both with the joint shortest TTK record.

If you used the old Gatekeeper and Saron to any great extent, you would totally understand why the GK was nerfed (they are very different beasts). You wouldn't understand the resulting new GK though !

Was good back in 2015, still good now. I've seen people try to spam it at infantry in close range, but that's not how you're supposed to do it. If you make sure to get direct hits, (which is extremely easy btw) then it doesn't take many shots. 4 bodyshots, in fact. Gatekeeper can't even kill them, and it's a similar weapon, though as far as I know GK is the same "in-slot" as the aphelion-vex, while saron is the same in-slot as vulcan. Aphelion-Vex 4 takes about 5 of the tiny shots to kill a singe infantry. (provided you can hit them with it, the wave is a bit easier)

And yeah I've used every rendition of the GK and saron up to this point so far. It used to be very powerful at long range, yes, but as it is, it's garbage. Exactly why basically nobody uses it anymore.

Saron - Gatekeeper - Enforcer
Aphelion - Vulcan - Mjölnir
and technically the Gatekeeper can kill infantry 135 damage at 8 shots in a mag is enough and it's 600RPM does it even faster than the 120rpm of a paced Saron

If you hit all 8 shots, yeah. The problem is... good luck hitting them with all of it. Best hits you're going to get most of the time, especially when the weapon is typically used at longer range, is the indirect damage. One plus it has is that it's easy to hit vehicles with, even while moving, such as other harassers. Of course, the other weapons are just as easy.

Emerald VS pop is always low now as of many months. This is fact. Check the population tracker historical trends here, and adjust for appropriate statistics using the available options: http://ps2.fisu.pw/population/?world=0

NC seem to have gained overall player numbers and stand out on top, although not by much in comparison to TR. If the trend continues steadily, NC will have the largest population on average.

When VS has equal numbers or greater, they tend to win continents, sometimes even with underpop depending on what the other factions are doing. This bit has not changed. I suspect it to be due to having competent players, competent leadership, and adequate gear overall.

I have never exactly fought against VS on my TR so do not know what they are like to fight against, but do hear about people's general dislike to engage VS. Possible reasons could be due to 'special forces' that hunt & take out spawn points repeatedly (valid strategy if leaving spawn completely undefended), Magriders strafing abilities at range, splash damage area denial (Lasher), and some infinite ammo weapons.

Fighting for or against (as VS) TR, they feel on average underpowered. TR gear performs poorly when combined with the nature of large-scale multiplayer network issues, where lost bullets (the weapon has a firing animation but the bullet is not released) or non-registering projectile damage (bullets fired into enemy player hitbox do not hit and/or show much less shield/HP damage than expected given the damage and headshots) harms effective RPM/RoF nullifying the fast-firing large-mag TR philosophy which itself is already flawed due to weapon bloom (tap fire) and need for headshots.

Stock VS gear is adequate for beginners, while very lacking for TR with the sniper as the only exception.

That said, no, I don't believe VS is OP, but they seem to hold the good middle ground. Either very subtly & carefully adjust the other factions to be in line with average VS gear, or bring everyone down to average TR gear performance. LMGs across factions have been adjusted to be in line with SMGs and Carbines, so the precedent is there for such wide sweeping changes - this is not desirable since the weapons should have been crafted properly balanced to one another in the first place, but in the absence of alternatives provides the only solution. Other gear (Ex. tanks) should have their values equalized, and carefully adjusted to match their ES features and perceived performance values (tankiness on NC, maneuverability on VS, DPS and long range artillery on TR).

I assure you, the Vulcan is nowhere near as useful as it once was. NC's Mjolnir, on the other hand SHOULD be nerfed or the nerf on the Vulcan revised. It was hit WAY too hard. The Mjolnir will destroy you much faster than the Vulcan will at point blank. Only, the Mjolnir will do this from a distance as well... where the Vulcan is completely useless. Where's the balance there? Currently, TR has no answer for the Mjolnir or whatever that VS topgun is that seems to destroy my vehicles just as quickly. All of our topguns have been nerfed to the point where we're the blatant underdogs across the board now, especially with the way that VS and NC often team up against TR on Emerald. I don't know how many times I've seen the entirety of VS and NC taking turns warpgating TR from either side while only having one or two minor (1-12 man) fights between each other.

Having tested and also used the Vulcan in the field, both on harasser and on prowlers, the weapon itself is completely underwhelming and ineffective. Mjolnir is broken in how powerful and effective it is, and is an absolute top offender of NC gear aggravating overall faction-balance, or more accurately, evident extreme power bias, in this game. It has no high skill ceiling considering how easy a harasser with it can land shots as well as hit and run, while a vulcan trying to do the same thing with its ultra-low bullet velocities that tickle at range gets overpowered every time.

Here are some of my rough tests from VR, done about a month ago from today. I have not had the chance to test out NC gear yet:
Prowler
=======
Halberd
Mid-range test betweent the last set of rocks, front damage to vanguard, time to kill
- 10 rounds, 27.34sec
longer-range test next to ammo tower, same vanguard, time to kill
- 10 rounds, 27.92sec

Vulcan - with max reload speed
Mid-range test betweent the last set of rocks, front damage to vanguard, time to kill
36.50sec
longer-range test next to ammo tower, same vanguard, time to kill
40.65sec

G30 Walker
Mid-range test betweent the last set of rocks, front damage to vanguard, time to kill
38.69sec
longer-range test next to ammo tower, same vanguard, time to kill
43.80sec

Magrider
=======
Sauron
Mid-range test betweent the last set of rocks, front damage to vanguard, time to kill
32sec
31.82sec (if fired slower for accuracy)
longer-range test next to ammo tower, same vanguard, time to kill
31.81sec
29.25sec

Aphelion
Mid-range test betweent the last set of rocks, front damage to vanguard, time to kill
38.19 with constant fire
37.23 with 6 shots for charge-up, more ammo efficient too
longer-range test next to ammo tower, same vanguard, time to kill
36.09 with 6 shots for charge-up, more ammo efficient too


CONLUSION
- vs heavy armor, Halberd > Sauron > Aphelion > Vulcan > G30 Walker

vs wouldnt be op without the spandex support
maybe they should start worshipping the flying spaghetti monster aswell?

jokes aside, i dont play vs as much as tr just because i have a community inside tr
and i sadly didnt see any inviting and serious communities in the vs side(i was playing as a vs char and the leader left me as the leader... most of them were soooo responsive(its amazing) but they didnt have the community to support that)

anyway the only way to make vs better is to give them more uniquness to their arsenal
for example: new vehicle weapons
more adaptability
more exp while underpoped(for every 1% less pop that the biggest nation is 5% more exp)
maxes that can launch themselfes up(20 sec cooldown)
time paralysis area granades(everyone freeze in their spot(even in air))
bleeding dmg bullets(50 dmg for 3 sec can be re applied but will only last 3 sec max then its gone)
use gauntlets that are made from corotium to infect other players with time damage
corrosion granades(slowing down vehicles by 50% top speed and acceleration for 10 sec)
sonic boom on schytes - cause every one(not friendlies) to loose hearing for 10 sec 80 meters radius
exploding dart weapon(explodes after 3 sec of hit)
on the air seeking bullets(tank - anti infantry)
smart bullets(lockon to a target and fire away - 30 degrees free movement and then they cant sway any more)
tank - lightning strike - inflict 750 dmg max(3 meters) 300 min(15 meters) to a radius
special drop pod sundies - loadup a player and shoot him using energy to an area(50% fall dmg decrease until landed)
laser gun - 1000 dmg per second, continues laser beam, can keep up to 2 sec(5 mags)
crystal gun - huge drop off, slow moving(50 m/s) 225 dmg(no headshot multiplier) 500 rpm, max distance 40 meters
new medic ability, tutrle - paralyses himself up to 10 sec with 100% dmg resistance(cant cap cant move nor shoot)
granades - discovery - makes every player in the radius of 10 meters be seen through walls up to 7 sec
warhammer - special cqc main weapon - shield(no movement panelty) 50% dmg reduction - 750 dmg per hit 50 rpm
trancendence - revive a dead guy from 20 meters(5 sec) reload time - 10 sec

just some ideas to attract new players

I blame Wrel for VS being less OP than NC or TR

VS is fine. That said, VS is also dull. Most things with VS flavour has been nerfed into trash/removed. VS is not UP or OP.

So... VS is fine and humans rarely make a fuss about things that are "just fine."

The interest part is when VS ask "So how about we fix some of our useless things?" Now then... Wow, then forumsiders appear out of nowhere and remind us HOW VS IS EASY MODE BECAUSE THINGS THAT ARE NOW NERFED USED TO BE OP! CANIS! MAGRIDERS CAN DODGE ANYTHING!!!! ZOE! RAaAAAAAaaaaaawr!!1oeoeoene!1!1!!!

No.

I want to remind you of glorious days in the VS:

ZOE
Magrider mobility and truly hovering tank
Saron sniper gun
PPA
LPPA
0,75 ADS
No drop slugs
Magrider VPC
Lancer

Woodman Server...

Oh: every aspect of gamplay making VS unique got removed, strange...