Am I the only one tired of instagibbing scat maxes

And.... TR & VS have this same gun.
Why exactly do TR & VS want a Close-range RNGesus over their present AI?
Shotgun spread are RNG.
If you have less ammo than NC, you have 4~ shots, or less - NC can't sustain fire.
Less effective - Would put them so severely useless to TR & VS, it would be a joke.

Gorgons: The feeling of TR weapons at range.. great.
Considering NC only has short-range dedicated AI, and VS & TR still have dedicated AI for longer-ranges..
NC would be the only one not gaining anything that isn't a shotgun for dedicated AI.
Which just puts VS & TR into NC's range, while keeping them stocked with Additional options - While NC gets nothing.
So if NC wants range, and use a Gorgon, they lose the entire capability of a dedicated AI platform to damage armor instead.
If VS or TR wants range, they pick another AI dedicated weapon - and if they want to damage armor, they pick AV.
If they want a Gorgon, they too would bother with it: yet NC is expected to use the Gorgon or a Shotgun.
Shotgun or AV = NC
Medium-range Chaingun, Short-range Chaingun, AV Chaingun, AV = VS & TR
Options... NC is lacking hard.
With this, VS would also put a Shotgun on that List, while NC retains... the severe lack of options.

Gauss: It's a type of gun in this game, with a visual, that's basically it, It ain't the damage-output.
No one sane is expecting 200 damage rounds out of it.
Let alone since, that would likely end up with it being really hard to use, just from that.
If not, we'd start this entire cycle again, until it was a ***** to use.

When I think NS Shotgun, I don't think you're biased.
I think delusional:
As if it's equal to NC's, TR & VS just gained everything NC can do, while retaining all their options from before.
Which puts TR & VS on top or equal in All ranges available. While NC retains only 1 range for dedicated AI.
If it's inferior:
NC has no use for it, and it won't teach VS or TR of their Maxes, they'll complain about how NC has a better shotgun.

What I want, and I'm clear on it: Is NC to be on the same footing of ranges as TR & VS.
No ******* short-range specialists, vs Medium-Range specialists.
Since obviously, people dislike instant-kills, People dislike having RNGesus control their shots more than them.
A shotgun obviously can't be viewed by people as the situational weapon it is - Due to how often that situation can useful.
Since people will apparently run face-first into a Max, repeatedly before considering what happened the first 7 times.
Since the death is so quick, They apparently don't have time to consider to not doing it again..

Why in Hell, VS & TR are medium-range, while NC is short-ranged is a grand question.
Since that puts either NC on top or severely screwed.
It's akin to a fight between 3 soilders; One has a Sniper Rifle, one has an LMG, and one has a Knife.
The first can one-shot kill at extreme range, but has trouble at closer-ranges even hitting a target.
The second can barely work at longer-ranges, but is decent at closer ranges.
The third can kill in one-hit at close range, but only has that range.
Thankfully, we are just at 2nd & 3rd, rather than 1,2 & 3
But in the right situation, 3 is considered OP.
In another situation, 2 is considered OP
In another, 1 is considered OP
How? Situation where the weapon shines.

We have a lovely issue where essentially, with the Maxes
One is locked to a range, and two are poor at other ranges.
If the ones at other ranges match or excel in the range the NC max can only use..
They essentially beat the living hell out of the Max - As practicality puts them in higher capability.
Range? NC loses.
Damage: If they equal where NC can fire only, then NC loses this severely.
Reload: NC already lost this
Magazine: NC has 6-12 shells.

What NC is damage-output in a hurry , in one select range.
if we actually had equal Maxes, with none range-locked and none being alone in locked-into-select-mechanics..
We would have an easier time actually balancing the things.
NC's is locked into a situational-as-hell weapon-type - where it either excels or is useless.
Why in Hell, NC is constantly locked into Shotguns, against Chainguns, and flying grenades is great question..
Same could be asked, why NC is short range, TR is medium, and VS is long-range in so many fields.
If it wins at Long-range, and isn't poor up close, that bests Short-range.
If it wins at Medium-range, and isn't poor up close, that bests short-range
If it wins at Short-range, you had to survive getting there past medium & long range first.
The distance between medium & short , and medium & long, can be severe or light.

No side should essentially be stuck in a close-combat role, against those designed to be equal in close-quarters as they are at range.
As that is basically putting a Pistol against an Assault Rifle, and Sniper Rifle.
In the situation, the Pistol manages to win, It's easily looking as if it was potent.
In the situation where the pistol isn't, it's side-stepped due to not looking like anything unusual.
So the Pistol is used where it works - So you see only when it does, and barely register when it doesn't.
So eventually you want it Nerfed or mirrored.

Rather than Giving the sods stuck with just a Pistol, other options
You just give a Pistol to the other two.
You get the implication in this long *** post?

Don't underestimate volume of fire. NC slugs are incredibly rng, same with Gorgons. The amount of bullets TR and VS dump out does limit a lot of randomness. Sometimes you dump both shotgun mags full of slugs at medium range and don't land a single hit. The Mercy is predictably bad at range. You get a feel for them and can expect a certain dps at range. NC slugs aren't the same.

This game is not about 60% dead or 80% dead. This game is about dead or not dead. If he is not dead he will kill you...no matter if he got 20 or 40% health left. If you miss all shots he survives, if you hit them he is dead. 50% chance. If I always just take him down to 50% then I'm always dead.
I don't care how predictable I miss...I care about how reliable I kill someone in a certain amount of time(the shorter the better. No chance for him to fight back then.) in a distance where most of the fights for my class take place. If he ain't dead it does not really matter to me(given all the regeneration, healthpacks etc. it does not matter much from a tactical point of view either. Especially on medium and long ranges the enemy has always the chance to recover then. Only difference is when a suqad is in CQC, cause then every bullet counts since nobody can recover...the team that lands more dps wins...but that's where the scatmax is on point and very deadly).

That's why I did not understand that someone complains about his scatmax doing "overkill"...as if that would be something bad for him. If it's more than dead, it's still dead. I won.

As the NC Max reload is Long, and over-kill means a shot wasted making that Reload closer.
As every single shot counts, when the Mag-size is tiny, and the reload is long enough to Die.
NC Max has no sustaining fire; Any wasted shot, easily leads to problems.
Not to mention in a target rich environment, Over-kill is an issue when you have the smallest magazine, and easily too few shots.
As you need every shot to land already - as you need the damage output.

You read threads like this and wonder how the hell the NC loses any Bio farms!

InB4 #badorganisation #tkfaction

Good god, another one! I just posted a quote of RedBlack of him saying he wants the NC MAX nerfed.

First of all, balance can be achieved in many ways, including nerfing something.
Second of all, you are now hiding behind the word "balance" even though it still has to be proven that the NC MAX is somehow OP.

My own solution was to combat the bias by introducing an NS/ES shotgun variant to the VS and TR, and giving the NC MAX a full NS/ES AI variant rather than the AV/AI inbetween weapon that the Gorgons form.

That's a simple dueling mentality. I take shots at targets all the time that I know I can't kill, just to keep their head down while getting their shield back or possibly add a little damage to help an ally finish him off. Now if two guys round a corner then you're absolutely right, but the whole game isn't like that.

That's a common problem with all NC guns. A missed shot or a target taking 1 extra bullet is a much bigger deal on NC than 1 extra bullet on TR. With nano-weave and Auxiliary Shield many classes take a single extra bullet from any gun. I'm happy with the NC Max, but the philosophy behind overdoing it is solid. If multiple targets have 700 health, would you rather have a gun that deals 350 every 2 seconds or a gun that deals 650 every 4 seconds?

Are you trying to silence me?
Also Looks like you are trying to bully me.

Not cool dude.

Quote:

Good god, another one!

I just posted a quote of RedBlack of him saying he wants the NC MAX nerfed

.

I said nerf/buff, Balance the maxe/s. You are now nitpicking my words. Somthing you Held against me, remember?

A bit schizophrenic, dont you think?

NC MAX suits have sorta always had this issue with being close range powerhouses.

The basic logic behind they're design is sound in theory. It's a CQC power house that will struggle at long range. Unfortunately, theory does not always translate properly to practice.

The main problem with that theory is that every MAX struggles at long range anti infantry combat. So having one that sacrifices part of that already limited range, and some sustained firepower for a massive face shield, and top of the line burst damage will easily make that one a top of the line powerhouse.

A further complication is that this sorta does put the NC MAX into a classic high risk/ high reward type combat style, which is difficult to balance. Outside of its effective range, its practically useless. Within it, its a whole different story. The problem inevitably becomes trying to limit those strength periods, but that means walking a very fine line between being rather OP, and seriously under powered.

As it stands currently though, the NC have the only MAX that I would overall consider properly viable. MAX suits in general do need some work, but I feel a strong starting place is to first get all three to be roughly in line with each other.

Like adamts said early on; its a better approach to get the other MAX suits to be able to match the NC MAX, rather then have 3 barely useful resource sinks.

The best place to start is with the TR and VS abilities. If a TR MAX is going to be completely immobile, and have limited firing arc ( the limited arc bit does make sense aesthetically), then at least make sure it can stand a decent chance against the inevitable explosive rain that can kill it in barely 2 seconds.

As for VS ( deep breath as I get ready to say something that will likely be unpopular), I think that with the current duration limit in place, ZOE should give equal damage buff and resistance nerf, while still having its speed boost.

This forum has a very predictable thread pattern, and it seems to follow a cycle.
- complain about heavy assault
- complain about vehicles
- complain about AA/complain about aircraft
- complain about C4/complain about light assault
- complain about infiltrators
- complain about shotguns

I guess next we should be due for more complaints about construction unless some brave soul cares to break the mold and give us something new.

On the subject of MAXs I can't really say I care all that much aside from a strong dislike of passing out nerfs in general. I don't use them and the class that I use the most has little ability to kill them. I will say that I don't really fear MAXs unless it is super CQB and in that situation I avoid them regardless of the faction. The only ones I truly have an issue with are the VS ones and that is purely due to the fact that they look so much like a heavy assault I will frequently engage them on accident.

Other posters have already rightly pointed out how you are often just as dead regardless of which MAX you run into. To that I will add there are times I have turned a corner directly into a MAX and have been able to turn around and simply run away before they can kill me, and the only difference being that with VS or TR MAXs I will not know I have escaped until I reach hard cover, but with NC MAXs I will either escape scott-free or be dead before I have taken 3 steps.

Sonny boy I've played longer than you, have a higher BR than you, a higher KD than you, and probably play everything more than you do. It's either kill or seriously maim to the point with C4 that you can bullet them down, here's a suggestion, take your carbine, AR, LMG or whatever into the VR sim and see how long it takes to bullet down a max, now do it again with headshots and then apply that to combat where you can take free shots at him if you know where he's looking.

Maxes are basically big brutes that can't have 100% accuracy with their weapons, C4, rockets or just outplaying them does the trick. The difference between a good max player and a bad max player is how well does he stick to his team and know not to be right ******* next to the doorframe. Unfortunately for NC, CQ is kinda the only option for them. Slugs are completely RNG based and are either you hit, or completely miss with what are basically semi-auto sniper rounds. When's the last time you ever wanted to hipfire one? Hell, you don't even want to hipfire shotguns in this game.

Now this does not mean that the NC max should be non-lethal, if you think making them have less damage for range, you are basically doing the exact same thing the devs did to shotguns, shotguns that have less usage than almost any other weapon and have almost comparable usage to some side-grade sidarms. All this would manage to do is max the NC max even less viable than it was before.

The whole game isn't like that? hell, unless you storm a room full of enemies most fights are 1on1 or 2on1. It's a long line of duels. Sometimes one after the other without much of a break, but it's still duels. And if I run into a room full of enemies then I rather have a gun that has the potential to kill 4 enemies within 4 seconds...than having one that can kill the first one after 3 seconds. We do not need to talk about reload, reload is a thing that only matters if you survive long enough.
Even if a heavy(and that is the ONLY class) would take an extra shot from a shotgun(and I ain't sure it does. I don't play heavy much.)...that would still mean that the shield has to be up(which many heavies do not even manage when I use a shotgun as LA. Shock moment, you know?). And seriously, even with an extra shot those scatmax shotguns are still much, much faster than blueshifts. ;-)

Nothing is 1v1 on Connery. Maybe your server is different. But really, if you don't have more than 1 gun on a bad guy when he peeks then that's just bad strategy.

You missed the point. High damage weapons have a slower fire rate. If someone has a sliver of health left it's more efficient to have a low damage gun (say a battle rifle instead of a bolt action) and more quickly get shots on the next target. Nano-weave and Aux Shield also throw a wrench in to the numbers, causing each faction's guns to take a single extra bullet, but that single bullet is more valuable to the higher-damage gun. The victory of most encounters doesn't often come down to that, but it's something to think about.

thats the most stupid thing i ever heard. If your shotgun bullet on light assault is more valueable to shoot target with low hp, why not change to secondary weapon? . . . On NC MAX it doesnt matter, you shoot and if theres some peeps which are scary, you turn on your shield and reload and repeat.

It's just a concept, one which rarely matters in actual gameplay, but it does ever so slightly favor TR.

I've never complained about the NC Max. Why are you telling me this?

Lord Krelas, not sure if you played Planetside 2 yet, but TR as you call it ´´long range weapon´´ is Mercy and its effective range is only 20m, same range when NC Shotgun is instakilling bois with slugs. Spreading shotgun pellets is rng? No **** Sherlock, you think that other weapons has no cof? Then you are biased and you are going to ignore list. You just don´t know what you are talking about. You never played as TR. Maybe VS got better aim at range, but it isnt that good either. NC MAX still can one shot at range.

Read name of the thread for me please and i hope you will realize that.

Go to the testing grounds yourself and tell me which shotgun can one-shot at 20m. A Hacksaw with slugs might be able to do it if both landed on a head, but I've never once seen it happen, nor have I been able to do it in VR. At 20m it usually takes 3-4(x2) shots with slugs no matter which guns you're using. You have zero clue what you're talking about and you're just spreading false information at this point.

look, NC biased fanboy.