They Nerfed Shotguns, Congratz

Why the f*ck are you argueing with me? We are defending the same statement for f*cks sake. Also, many posts are being deleted and I myself have been in a thread saying that Deimos is OP as ****, the dude even linked me to a video which was average gameplay.
Anyhow, many people complain about shotguns, not me. Streamers and youtubers are involved as well.
Also do you really f*cking believe there have been only 5 pages of threads including shotguns in 4 years? You're delusional. Search bar is f*cked up and many threads are deleted.
Anyhow, you and I we both don't think shotguns are OP. Im the one who f*cking made this thread in the first place.

They've been doing it for years, and not as successfully.

NAC got "Buffed" when they literally lowered the numbers. How was it buffed? Cert cost decrease amg. (PS, still lower numbers)

That being said, shotguns deserved to be nerfed, they are OP as ****.

In case UBS(Underbarrel Shotgun) remains unnerfed, NC shotgun enthusiasts who have mastered the Brawler(or even Mag-Scatter) will emerge with head and shoulders above the water from this patch. As far as I know, MAXes aren't going to get touched further

However, I have a tingling that manbabies usually parading as Heavy Assaults will still continue to take issue with even something as whacky as Mag-Scatter

@LaughingDead
See what I'm talking about?

The concept of shotguns always sucked. 1shot-kill guns either need a loooong reload time after that one shot and be really useless for anything except the situation they are designed for...or they feel OP on the receiving end. Most fights between infantry is CQC or midrange...and shotguns are superior in close quarter and decent midrange....and usually got enough shots that you actually can miss the target once and still kill it before he can take you down(unless he is using a shotgun too). Not to mention that 1shot-kill guns in CQC often means the one with the better connection wins...always.
I have one shotgun on auraxium. I had no other gun even half as fast on auraxium as that one...and I seriously felt sorry for my victims(opponents wouldn't be the right word here) cause they never had a chance. Run around a corner, shoot...anyone there is dead. Wait behind an entrance...whoever comes in is dead. Simply because you only need to have your first shot on target...and that shot is usually the easiest one.

[/quote]
That being said, shotguns deserved to be nerfed, they are OP as ****.[/quote]shotguns being op is like a knife being "Op" you have to get close, and if you're not paying attention, then its your fault. To have my shotgun be useful, i had to equip it on heavy, or light assult... and if you can me against another heavy, expect to lose. So shotguns are op, because a close range, limited ammo, and rngods controlled weapon is op (if used by a player whos skill compensates the gaps in this weapon)

That being said, shotguns deserved to be nerfed, they are OP as ****.[/quote]shotguns being op is like a knife being "Op" you have to get close, and if you're not paying attention, then its your fault. To have my shotgun be useful, i had to equip it on heavy, or light assult... and if you can me against another heavy, expect to lose. So shotguns are op, because a close range, limited ammo, and rngods controlled weapon is op (if used by a player whos skill compensates the gaps in this weapon)[/quote]



It's not that they're OP, its that they are seriously unfun to die to. Walk through a doo- BAM DEAD. Crest a stairca- BAM DEAD. Reach the top of a gravlift. Bam. Dead.

You die without ever having a chance to retaliate. Pacster3 hits the nail right on the head, you're not killing opponents, you're killing victims. You can reduce the odds of dying to a shotgun by playing it smart, but it's inevitable that if you encounter a shotgun user in a manner of their choosing, you will die. No amount of skill can save you so long as the shotgun user is even moderately competent.

shotguns being op is like a knife being "Op" you have to get close, and if you're not paying attention, then its your fault. To have my shotgun be useful, i had to equip it on heavy, or light assult... and if you can me against another heavy, expect to lose. So shotguns are op, because a close range, limited ammo, and rngods controlled weapon is op (if used by a player whos skill compensates the gaps in this weapon)[/quote]



It's not that they're OP, its that they are seriously unfun to die to. Walk through a doo- BAM DEAD. Crest a stairca- BAM DEAD. Reach the top of a gravlift. Bam. Dead.

You die without ever having a chance to retaliate. Pacster3 hits the nail right on the head, you're not killing opponents, you're killing victims. You can reduce the odds of dying to a shotgun by playing it smart, but it's inevitable that if you encounter a shotgun user in a manner of their choosing, you will die. No amount of skill can save you so long as the shotgun user is even moderately competent.[/quote]


You can argue the same that even when a Shotgun user does everything right, the slightest distance or simple random CoF algorithms can screw you over at the same time.

That's true. The solution is not to nerf or buff them, but rather make them less clumsy and random.

Well, apparently Brawler is getting 2 more extra rounds to it's magazine and it's UBS remains untouched. This is gonna be one hell of a time to play NC engineer

shotguns being op is like a knife being "Op" you have to get close, and if you're not paying attention, then its your fault. To have my shotgun be useful, i had to equip it on heavy, or light assult... and if you can me against another heavy, expect to lose. So shotguns are op, because a close range, limited ammo, and rngods controlled weapon is op (if used by a player whos skill compensates the gaps in this weapon)[/quote]



It's not that they're OP, its that they are seriously unfun to die to. Walk through a doo- BAM DEAD. Crest a stairca- BAM DEAD. Reach the top of a gravlift. Bam. Dead.

You die without ever having a chance to retaliate. Pacster3 hits the nail right on the head, you're not killing opponents, you're killing victims. You can reduce the odds of dying to a shotgun by playing it smart, but it's inevitable that if you encounter a shotgun user in a manner of their choosing, you will die. No amount of skill can save you so long as the shotgun user is even moderately competent.[/quote]
and thats where they shine. the reason there are door way campers is because thats where you have the best chance to get a kill. there are a lot of unfun things to die to, but nerfing shotguns only makes more sense to door way camp since its **** every where else

Tl: Dr
Shotguns aren't in the least OP.
Shotguns are a dedicated short-range weapon, and people complain about it's power in CQC. That's like complaining about an SMG being better in CQC than an LMG. Or complaining that an LMG is better at mid-range than a Carbine.

Hello Pacster3! How about I inform you on shotguns!

You have Pump-action shotguns. These can OHK with a full bodyshot. They require very close proximity to the enemy and have a relatively long pump-action time. If you miss that shot your TTK is instantly higher than most weapons in the game, including side-arms. Add that you need to approach your opponent first and the weapon is only superior in surprise attacks and the occasional doorway fight.

However there's only 2 pump-action shotguns per faction.
The other 4 shotguns can only achieve a OHK with a headshot (currently, with the change that's no longer possible), and RNG has to put enough pellets on the head. Unfortunately to get enough pellets on the head you need to be in knifing range, making it one of the most skillful things you can pull off in planetside. I would think that a high skill requirement would be more than enough of a balancing factor as opposed to long reload times.

The reason they feel OP on the receiving end is because everyone assumes shotguns are easy-mode. "You just point in the enemy direction and you get some free hits!"
Unfortunately that's not even close to the truth. If you don't hit with nearly all pellets you instantly have a lower TTK than a Carbine. You are also forced to be in CQC with your opponent and have a heavy damage falloff, meaning that the moment you go out of CQC range you are instantly useless. While a CQC Carbine or SMG can still be used with trigger discipline at longer ranges and be somewhat effective.
But there's more, the combination of COF and pelletspread mean that you have to be pinpoint-accurate on your enemy to reduce the amount of missed pellets. If you aim just off-target you have a larger chance that all pellets go off-target than that a few accidentally hit the target, so you are heavily punished for aiming even slightly off. This makes shotguns require more skill than a simple Carbine, since with a Carbine you can just hold the trigger and try to look at your enemy, but with shotguns you require to pull the trigger at the exact perfect time to get enough of a hit to stay ahead of your opponent.

In short: All complaints that shotguns are OHK guns and OP are widely exaggerated and only really used by people who don't know how shotguns work.

Most fights are longer than 10m, and 10m is the maximum effective range of a shotgun. At 10m you will at best get a 3-hit kill, which already puts your TTK below that of a Carbine and means your shotgun is under-par.

Shotguns are superior in CQC (but barely), just like an SMG is superior in CQC compared to a mid-range Carbine, just like a Sniper is superior in long-range combat compared to an SMG. This is just the ideal range the weapon was made for. To complain about shotguns being good in CQC is like complaining about a sniper being good at long-range. And just like a sniper the shotgun is bad outside of it's effective range. Unfortunately unlike a sniper the shotgun becomes completely useless outside of it's effective range. A shotgun is anything but decent at midrange.

You really don't know how shotguns work. A shotgun that misses once already needs a OHK in the next shot to stay ahead in TTK to a Carbine, but as I explained pulling off a OHK is a nearly impossible feat requiring knifing range, pinpoint perfect aim and even then some RNG since it can still send too many pellets off-target (like into the chest) at knifing range and foil your OHK.

And you are still clueless about shotguns?

I mean if you looked at your stats with it, your Thanatos is one of your worst weapons.
Your shotgun has a lower KD than most of your other infantry weapons
Your shotgun has a much lower KPH than most of your other infantry weapons
Your shotgun barely has a better accuracy rating than your other weapons
And the biggest lie of all: Your shotgun has one of the highest equip times before it reached auraxium compared to other weapons that just got auraxed. Actually "one of the highest" is wrong, it is your highest. You required more time to aurax the Thanatos than any other weapon that you just auraxed and ditched afterwards.

So yeah, you are clueless even about your own shotgun, see the next quote how you lie you butt off.

ahem

Seeing your bad KD they actually did have a chance, in fact they stood more chance than with most other weapons you ever wielded.

Considering your KD the person that died was more often you than the opponent.

Again your definition of "whoever" needs to be stretched to "including myself".

Considering your HS ratio you barely got that OHK with your Thanatos. So again you are lying.



Also by your definition if you used an LMG to kill a Carbine user at mid-range then he's a victim as well?
Or a sniper-rifle at long-range?
Or an SMG vs a mid-range weapon?

You are using a dedicated CQC weapon, in fact the only dedicated infantry weapon that can't perform outside of it's effective range, and you are surprised that it performs better in CQC than other weapons? Well not in your case ofcourse, but in general it performs better in CQC than other weapons. Why should that be bad?

Alright then...

Exactly my thoughts.

Myself and a few other prominent forumsiders actually developed a revamp for shotguns, spending probably 20 hours working on it. Handed it to the devs in the form of a PDF, basically spoon fed an update that required nothing but stat adjustments that we already calculated and even simulated on Iridar's weapon spreadsheet.

Instead, for our hard work we were rewarded with this sad excuse for a nerf they have the audacity to call a "buff".

Share it! I'm guessing my ideas about the shotguns are pretty similar. I'm really curious how you solvebit. (1 idea like less COF, making the shot less random and tweak from there?)

I agree with what you said, but got an offtopic question !


-> (offtopic, sorry)

How do you guys check each other's profiles if the names of the ingame characters are different to that of their forum names?

When you started talking about his ratio or the time he took to aurixium his weapon and so on, I thought I'd have a look, but can't find him

(not asking this beacause my current ingame character's name is different to my forum name )

They might not have nerfed the NC MAX shotguns, but they removed the charge so before the NC MAX can get in range of its target, it is killed by infatry fire spam, grenades, rockets, C4, ect.

It's actually a pretty extensive revamp, and sometime this week I'll likely end up posting it to reddit, but to make a long story short;

• Change the damage model from 780@225 to 450@295, reduce their DPS slightly and make them less annoyingly burst-y and punish them less punishing on your TTK to miss
• Drastically reduce the randomness of their CoF, increase CoF bloom to be on par with carbines per damage dealt to encourage burst firing
• Massive reductions of pellet spread across the board, pellet spreads of around 1.5-2 ideally, increasing range significantly but increasing the need for mechanical aim and punishing lower accuracy with lower damage
• Increase viability of attachments, and add Smart Choke and a Full Choke and Adv. Laser to improve attachment versatiltiy

I'd go further into detail but that's all I've got time for now. Perhaps Iridar or Demigan would like to elaborate further on any questions you have?

Fisu requires an exact name, Dasanfall lists names that look like what you typed.
Pacster3 didnt find anything. But there is a Pacster character with surprise surprise that single shotgun he auraxed. I thought that enough to assume it wasbthe same guy.