NC low win-rate - where is the balance?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Trizadd, May 1, 2016.

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  1. Slandebande

    If you think they are so ridiculous then feel free to refute any of the points I've made via solid argumentation :)

    I'm sorry if me trying to help people by writing down what my experience has tought me offends you. Do you have any valid arguments/points against what I've written or are you just going to deny it from the shadows? o_O I'd welcome any coherent discussion, but if you are just going to talk slander behind my back without giving up what you disagree with and why, I'll just ignore you I guess.

    I'm not the one that claims Vanguards cannot flank for instance, and that they are only able to come from the most expected of angles. I'm also not claiming the Prowler is drastically overperforming in the statistics, despite the stats not backing it up.

    But I'm sure you agree much more with the people making the REALLY ridiculous claims like the ones above, instead of me, who is trying to stick to a rational discussion based in facts and logic reasoning :rolleyes:

    Ah right, now I understand, (ab)using stats incorrectly isn't ridiculous, but me making solid points which you (or anyone else for that matter) haven't refuted, is? :rolleyes:

    Go ahead and continue to base your arguments on a number which is influenced by so many unknown factors that it is, in essence, unreliably without analyzing it further. Like looking at how the numbers themselves are distributed, for instance based upon times of day, which continents, population distributions at each data-collection-point (alerts here, meaning we need pop-data from before, during and after the alerts), just to name a few. When you are willing to participate in a mature, coherent discussion based on real data, then I'll be willing to listen.

    And right now, just you and me. Deep breath and let's completely abuse the stats and make absolutely no coherent points.
  2. freeAmerish

    Yes they are far behind with weapons like Carnage AR.

    What gets ignored mostly NC got for every class a TR style weapon and on top the best second generation SMG. You have always a choice between 125-143-167-200 damage weapon.

    Obviously NC is doomed by the recoil of Gauss SAW.
    • Up x 1
  3. Eternaloptimist

    Do you think maybe that new and inexperienced (or dare I say younger) players look quickly at the stats and think 'hey, a 200 dmg primary - that's got to be the best choice'? when in fact the default LMG for NC is a pain to use initially and the better results come from less obvious things like situational awareness and teamwork - things that comes more naturally with experience and maturity.

    If something is a problem on every server then statistically there has to be an underlying cause and the calibre of NC players seems to be the most obvious one. I play all factions and I don't find myself thinking 'damn, these weapons are useless' when I play NC.
    • Up x 1
  4. LaughingDead

    Ah so it's always the younger players fault eh? Or inexperienced players fault eh? So that's the exact reasoning across all servers right?
    So most players in NC are young inexperienced and only think about damage right?

    If the root of the problem was the quality of NC players then the scores would still show differently than it is currently, with some factions doing well and some doing poor, this is not the case. Whenever I see someone die in the NC or NC lose, it's always because the NC is bad, soon as I see a TR or VS armor colemn get shredded by ravens or vanguards, it's always vanguard OP or raven OP. Stupid right? Here's the thing, I'm not concerned with they got shredded or raven op or blah, I'm concerned because they expected the NC to be bad, that kind of mentality makes it so that the NC is basically the faction you try kicking in the gut for easy certs, both TR and VS factions start thinking like this and it goes to endgame.

    Now is the reason NC are doing poorly is because of bad players? And that cannot be a half ***** answer either, it's either the general player in NC is bad across all servers is bad or the argument is simply short. This would have to also confirm that VS usually have good players and TR have meh players.
    And even if that were the fuggin case, that all of it was true and NC has terribad players and etc, what would be done to fix it since it's clearly a problem?
    • Up x 1
  5. DragenoidHighLord

    And thanks to this guy right here,he just showed why i don't like TR and VS for the mentality they give, because they are simple.Its the very reason i don't like to play VS or TR i would rather play NC and waste hours struggling then go VS or TR,because to me they SIMPLE and BOORING and you will argue:"Oh but VS have future theme and hover tank,thats 20x better then Vanguard" or "TR is just badass,you get amazing RPM and they just kick *** with their Prowler and Gatekeeper" well thats boring,its just im my eyes one of the most MEH and lackluster gameplay i could have.The VS and TR both share the same template and thats why i hate them equally,they don't have anything really unique,sure VS has lasers and no bullet drop and what about it?At what point would someone care about bullet drop (besides snipers) in a firefight.NC have high kick guns,they don't act like ANY other factions guns in the game and in that they are UNIQUE and sure its not a good thing but they aren't bland and just a reskin of one another.I get that you have play styles and both TR and VS do give hectors of room for that and they are atractive to the general public.But its the NC you guys don't like,you just hate NC when we get our **** together,when your magriders take flight,when your prowlers get cornerd,who to blame?NC!!The DBG done a mighty fine job tuning the NC to be the warmachine of PS2 but its the same reason why YOU denie the fact NC is good,because any all around faction player knows NC is good when you know your guns.

    I mean NC are the poster boy for PS2,they are what drags players in to them and they damm well,just because you picked TR or VS doesn't mean your smart or dumb,it just means you don't like their playstyle and mindset and in all honesty i get it.But if you want NC to be a better faction,then your going to have to be NC to understand NC,because TR and VS sure don't understand why Railjack is a good gun and why would the Vanguard or Raven do so well when they aren't suppose to by "statistics" because 1 number off or things change by just a push of a button all of your "statistics" are useless and false.This game has no losses or wins it only has which faction wants to grind up more certs and get more toys or directive acomplishments.
  6. Crash Bandicoot


    I like your unbiased and objective way of thinking...





    jk :p
  7. Eternaloptimist

    Well, I'm posing a question rather than suggesting that it is the reason. But simple answers are often the most likely. As it happens I fell into that trap myself when a total noob making my first avatars a couple of years ago. Although I made one in each faction I started with the NC because big gun and I guessed (wrongly) that NC would dominate infantry fights.

    I like your idea (if I understand it correctly) that the perception of NC being easy meat, whether it is reality or not, may lead to them being attacked more often. And that occasionally this can make attackers complacent and they pay a price for it.

    Funnily enough, I logged on last night and when my cycling through my avatars got to my first NC alt I met a huge bunch of guys from one outfit (ZF I think) in the warp gate on one of the EU servers. They let me ride along with a mass Gal drop. They were certainly not a push over (but they were huge fun to run with for a couple of base captures).

    All this talk about who's got the best or worst weapons as an argument for why some faction loses more or wins more confuses me. I fight for all three factions and they've all got their strengths and weaknesses so far as I can see.

    As for kicking a man when he's down - yeah safest way to do it. If you find yourself in a fair fight you haven't done your planning properly. Personally I've never had a problem being on either side of a zerg - some you win, some you lose.

    And I don't think there is anything you can do about which kind of players are attracted to particular factions. All I can suggest is that these things tend to go in cycles over time and I've no doubt NC will rise again :).
  8. Tr34

    Come on developers, Balance NC it's unplayable like this. I'm bored of losing everyday to VS.
  9. MasterOhh

    Lol! Giving even more potent weapons to the NC might have a boomerang effect as long there is still friendly fire in this game ;)
    Now imagine, the NC would do 15% less damage to their teammates. That would help more than any weapon buff could (apart from some realy obscene OP ****)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/4l2zh8/congratulations_to_connery_nc/
  10. rahte

    In my prevous posts I was talking about three groups of rationalizations of basic facts...or denying of basic facts.
    - "If you will stand on head, and clap your ears twice, the your equipment will work" (flank, shoot with burts, shoot with single shot etc.),
    - "It is your fault that your equipment is a piece of junk" (NC have bad players),
    - "Fact's deasn't matter. Everything works just fine." (despite of facts, they do not want to change anything, because buffing NC would take those easy wins from them).


    Why people do create those rationalizations? One of the reasons might be the thing, that they would have to admit, that when they are winning over NC in fact they are winning over underpowered and badly equipped enemy, and their skill have nothing to do with it.


    Slandebande I will answer you today (I hope I will find some time).

    MasterOhh:

    The main reason is that, that people run in fron of each other all the time. Foult? Bad equipment. How it is work? The only way for NC to get points is to send wave after wave after wave of fresh meat to get the point to take base, because NC weapons do not work in 95% situations when firefights take place. Thats leads to frustration and ppl have a tendency push one over another to actually do something. Simple psychology of crowds.

    Did You know that when British Army equipped their soldiers with helmets number of persons wounded in head actually increased?
  11. Tr34

    Not more damage, just give secondary AV weapons with no bullet drop. That gives VS and TR easy wins.
    Secondary AV weapons like gatekeeper and saron overpowers NC secondaries. You get it? They can snipe vehicles from long distance.
    Powerful != High damage. Weapons without bullet drops are much better and easier to use and has more advantage than high damage. Stats tell everything, NC loses on all servers. This is because of the lack of proper long range AV weaponry.
    Also reavers are really bad in A2A situations, that makes other factions dominate the air.
  12. MasterOhh

    Ah, so now its the MBT secondaries.
    Well, yeah ... the prowler dominates the MBT stats in all categories, I won't argue with you about that one. And I agree, that the Enforcer is lacking behind the Saron and ofc the Gatekeeper. But what is that? The Titan AP gets way more kills than the Supernova FPC? Effectively canceling out the difference between Saron and Enforcer. The Vaguard and Magrider are pretty much tied in terms of average kills (with the Vanny having slightly more than the Magrider). How does that fit with your victim complex?
  13. MrMinistry30

    NC might be better if they concentrated more on not shooting the blue guys but started shooting at the others (TK statistics...)

    The NC has so many extremely powerful (at least borderline OP) weapons, they just have to learn to use them!
  14. rahte

    From where do you get statistics about Vanguard and Magrider kills?


    I already answered this one. The main reason is that, that people run in fron of each other all the time. Foult? Bad equipment. How it is work? The only way for NC to get points is to send wave after wave after wave of fresh meat to get the point to take base, because NC weapons do not work in 95% situations when firefights take place. Thats leads to frustration and ppl have a tendency push one over another to actually do something.
  15. MasterOhh

  16. MrMinistry30

    Oh come on, what do you want to say? Give us EVEN STRONGER weapons, far beyond everything we have at the moment or what would be balanced because people are too stupid to use the already very strong equipment we already have?

    Cyclone - best SMG
    Jackhammer - King of the shotguns
    Mustang Airhammer - best nosegun
    RailJack - Who needs a bolt action with the fastest projectile and no bullet drop?
    almost all LMG - laughing hard at enemies
    Godsaw/Fortuna - oh come on...
    MAXes - we don't even need to talk about this

    So tell me honestly, what do you expect? Weapons with 800/167 dmg profiles and no recoil that even damage vehicles or what?

    Try playing Vanu and tell me afterwards how the experience for you, INDIVIDUALLY and in 1v1, was...
  17. rahte

    In my prevous posts I was talking about three groups of rationalizations of basic facts...or denying of basic facts.
    - "If you will stand on head, and clap your ears twice, the your equipment will work" (thet NC should flank enemy, shoot with burst's, shoot with single shot etc.),
    - "It is your fault that your equipment is a piece of junk" (NC have bad players),
    - "Fact's deasn't matter. Everything works just fine." (despite of all facts, they do not want to change anything, because buffing NC would take those easy wins from them).

    Why people do create those rationalizations? One of the reasons might be the thing, that they would have to admit, that when they are winning over NC, in fact they are winning over underpowered and badly equipped enemy, and their skill have nothing to do with it.

    I do play Vanu. And TR.

    Just take a look at LMG's. First of all you have a really low rate of fire. You might think that it will be compensated by high dmg? Not it will not. It would, but you have one completely unexplainable thing in case of balance of fractions: higher bloom than any other LMG. Whenever You start shoot after first bullet recoil bloom kicks in and you start to miss. You might think that tap firing will compensate it? No it will not. Because you have lowest firing rate from all LMG's. It means that, when you will start tap firing, you will lower already low firing rate and you will not be able to kill your enemy before he will kill you. Then you might want to hold down you trigger. No, because you have higher bloom.... etc etc.

    Single shot on range? Better take scout rifle. You will be more usefull.

    I will not mention that those kind of weapons are useless when you want to attack points and rooms, and that is the main thing when you want to close continent.

    Headshots? Think about it for a sec. Every weapon is more effective when you score a headshot TR, NC, VS. It deasnt matter. Not mention that it is a "If you will stand on head, and clap your ears twice, the your equipment will work" (thet NC should flank enemy, shoot with burst's, shoot with single shot etc.) kind of argument.



    Thx. On the other hand K/D ratio would show real effectiveness of weapons.

    I was doing comparison between players. 500 players every single 3000 tousands. K/D; Points Earned, Place etc.
    It went not really good for NC as well, wchich is statistically impossible. And what is really interesting Vanu do not have such high K/D as we would expect.
  18. MrMinistry30

    Sorry dude but the argument that it is just you who can't handle the way NC weapons work is not evidence enough that they need their already very strong weapons even more buffed.

    Look at the update notes of the past years and what they did to the Vanu. TR got nerfed (at least a bit), VS got the full nerf hammer and NC? I can't really remember any significant nerfs of their equipment while VS gets one downgrade after another until NC finally learns to use their arsenal properly.

    Imagine a gauss saw was EVEN MORE accurate than it is now --> NC Heavies would become rocket launcher weilding, shielded snipers!

    I highly recommend you should watch some videos of Wrel, Cami and all the others who give good advice for recoil compensation...
  19. rahte

    In other words:

    - "If you will stand on head, and clap your ears twice, the your equipment will work" (thet NC should flank enemy, shoot with burst's, shoot with single shot etc.),

    and

    - "It is your fault that your equipment is a piece of junk" (NC have bad players).

    :)

    Why do you think that gauss saw is accutate? Because first bullet hit exact point? I will discover America for you: You will not kill enemy with one bullet.
  20. MrMinistry30

    "Why do you think that gauss saw is accutate?" because i find it easy to land shots even without ANY attachments! You can still add adv. grip + compensator which makes it even more accurate.

    If all bullets hit you only need 5 to 6 bullets to kill an enemy and by the time those 6 bullets left the carrel the COF will not have extended to the corners of your screen! And if you really need more shots start tap-firing. Being the lowest ROF-weapons on auraxis, tap-firing hurts the dmg/min of NC weapons the least.

    So if i understand you right, you really want the hardest hitting weapons to have less recoil and COF bloom to make it easy for every beginner to kill people at 100m?
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