Valid reasoning on why the NS-15M should have been changed during the LMG changes.

The LMG changes were designed to do 2 things:

1) Remove 0.75 ADS off all LMG's that have it.

2) Tweak the Empires LMG arsenals.

Keeping that in mind....... did they fully do what they were designed to do?

The answer is "almost" when you consider the NS-15M:


1) 0.75 ADS was removed off all ES LMG's, but not all LMG's.

The NS-15M is the only LMG that still has it. This is troubling due to how the weapon trait(0.75 ADS) was proven to be problematic enough on LMG's that it had to be removed & damaging enough that the weapons post 0.75 ADS removal had to be buffed.

If you are going to remove 0.75 ADS off a weapon type...... then ******* do it entirely.

2) Some thing.....something is missing.

The NS-15M is part of each empires LMG arsenal, which means it should have got changed aswell.

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To get the point across, answer these 3 questions:

1) Is the NS-15M a LMG? yes

2) Is the NS-15M a 0.75 ADS LMG? yes

3) Is the Ns-15M part of each empires(TR,VS,NC) LMG arsenals? yes



So keeping those answers in mind, if you consider how the LMG changes were designed to adjust/tweak the LMG arsenals of all empires & take 0.75 ADS off LMG's...........

Do you understand why this is a WTF moment in game balancing?


If you are going to do a job, fully do it.

This is exactly like how Resist Shield during the HA shield changes got nerfed to take 1 less bullet, while the other HA shields got nerfed to take 2 less bullets.

All HA shields should have been nerfed to take 2 less bullets, no exceptions. Just like how The NS-15M should have got changed during the LMG changes & had 0.75 ADS removed.

I was talking to BBurness about the LMG changes way back & when I brought up how the NS-15M should be included in them & changed he said something along the lines of "Since all empires have the NS-15M, its balanced".

That logic is flawed when you consider that he as a dev identified that 0.75 ADS being on LMG's is problem that needed to get fixed. But apparently he thinks its fine as-long as EVERYONE HAS THE PROBLEM.

And the hilarious part is that they still added the Gallows, proving that the NS-15M is "protected" because it makes money. So its "fine" for the NS-15M to have 0.75 ADS & keep breaking the balancing that was done because people would flock to it post LMG changes.
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The NS-15M is a cash cow, to such a point we have 7 variants at this point:

• NS-15M1
• NS-15M2
• NS-15MB
• NS-15MG
• NS-15MP
• NS-15M AE
• NS-15M Gallows

Did you know that you almost had 8 variants?

Due to my & others efforts the NS-15M has became a meme...... to such a hilarious basically pointing out this **** level.

For the 3rd Anniversary Bundle they were originally going to have NS-15M's colored ES style instead of the Commissioners.

I honestly expect a Auraxium Plated NS-15M to eventually happen.

All these factors prove that the NS-15M isn't being balanced for reasons outside of balance.
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So we have a weapon dodging balancing & effectively become this games "Zoolander face".

1): I don't see why not... people will probably come saying that you exaggerate, but then they wouldn't care about it getting removed would they

still haven't given up on nerfing the NS-15m have you? still asking for the ads to be removed for a tiny buff to ROF?

all NS weapons have ADS speed, NS-15 is an all rounder that every faction has access to, it's not like each faction has a unique LMG with ads on it that gives the an advantage.

it's not flawed, the weapon is fine and it's available to all factions, ADS being a problem on other weapons was down to them being specialized weapons rather then a generalist like the NS-15m.

all NS weapons have ADS 0.75 speed i don't see that changing anytime soon.

It was removed because the vocal minority wouldn't shut the hell up about it and using it as a scapegoat for all VS balance discussion. There were compensation buffs because the LMGs were fine overall so they just put the power elsewhere to maintain its balance point.

Removing 0.75 ADS speed from all LMGs wasn't the goal of LMG changes, it had to be removed from VS for balance reasons.
0.75 ADS is a NS trait, all NS weapons have it.

I used the NS15M for a while. I found that it's highly manageable recoil giving it more punch at longer range was the big advantage it gave me, more so than the 0.75 ADS. I have no objection to it being a cash cow for DBG, given that they allow you the option to play their game for free.

Fun fact. NC has the only 200 Damage LMG, 200 Damage Assault Rifles, 200 Damage Carbine, and 167 Damage SMG. Ironically.. not many complain about that trait of the NC. I know from personal experience from both facing and using it that its one of the most if not THE most powerful trait in the game. However to make it OP its not as simple as ADS and shoot. Its a bit more complex than that. It requires coordinated play. Which is why you don't see NC dominating (actually they do, in organized play).

But it'd be a bit silly to try and nerf that.

Point here is. .75 ADS is NOT what made the Orion OP. Orion was never OP. Orion stats after the ADS removal didn't change much. It changed at first, but reverted back once people's 'shock' faded and they realized it was actually made into a better weapon.

It was a perception issue. Nothing more.

The advantage of the NS15 is its power over range. Up close, the .75 ADS gives it flexibility. But not over weapons that can hipfire. Up close the Carv and Orion will dominate it. Over range, the SAW will trounce it. Like most NS weapons its a solid choice for any situation. But will be surpassed by more specialized ES versions.

Here's how you tell if the NS15M is OP. When it starts overperforming every weapon in every encounter in the game. It doesn't do that. It doesn't even get pushed over despite being used by all three empires. Doesn't even come close to the Commissioner (which most find.. 'ok' but want to see the ES sidearms buffed).

It actually was

That actually establishes that yes 0.75 ADS on a LMG is problematic to balance, which really implies the NS-15M should have got a similar treatment.

0.75 ADS is not a Empire or Faction Trait.

All empires have 0.75 ADS weapons.

Also not all NS weapons have 0.75 ADS, case and point the NS vehicle weapons don't & the Rocket Launchers don't.

It was never about VS.

It was about the balancing factor of how LMG's are a weapon type that is balanced around strength rather then speed.

Also how 0.75 ADS mitigates the HA shields movespeed penalty when ADSing with the shield on.

You really need to think heavily about everything I said in the OP.

Not all NS weapons have 0.75 ADS speed, the RL's don't and neither do the vehicle weapons.


Also its like you totally didn't get why "if everyone has a problem, its not a problem" is infact a problem.

If thats the case then shouldn't less weapons have 0.75 ADS?

Not all NS weapons have 0.75 ADS.

Can I just point out that those damage levels don't matter outside of 10m?

Ah.... ahh.........

So this really begs the question of "Is 0.75 ADS even needed in the game?".

Right.......so all that data proved nothing......

ADS wins vs Hipfire.

Factor in how 0.75 ADS is actually almost as fast as hipfire(1)........

Take a look at the data sometime and you will find that the NS-15M competes with and for the most part dominates over the ES LMG arsenals.

Good god, thats another issue entirely.

Why use a ES pistol when you could use a NS revolver?

The rocket launchers are the only pure Infantry NS weapons that lack 0.75 ADS.
Vehicle weapons zoom rather than ADS so they would not have to worry about this (that is to say they lack a concept of being "hipfired").
MAX weapons neither zoom nor ADS so Bursters would not have to worry about this (always hipfired?).

So, saying "all NS weapons have 0.75 ADS" is an incorrect statement at the end of the day.

NS weapons overall are too easy to use. They are deadly accurate not just LMG's. Loved the NS-15 when it first came out and AURAX it. Now I can't use any NS primary guns they all feel to cheap now due to the skill floor. NS LMG, SMG and pistols seem to be what infantryside kills me the most with these days.

Sure, if people were talking about anything but Infantry weapons when saying that. As I mentioned, non-infantry weapons do not have the same concept of aiming down the sights.

And I have no hesitation against arguing that the Decimator, Annihilator, and Swarm be granted 0.75 ADS, like all other NS Infantry weapons, if push came to shove. It's the easiest way to maintain consistency.

Speaking of consistency, wouldn't you agree that for the sake of balancing that the NS-15M should have been included in the LMG changes?

If you are going to try and use his argument against him then for consistency if the NS RLs were given ADS and NS15 got to keep 0.75 ADS shouldn't all RLs and some or all LMGs get ADS 0.75 back?

I'm not using it against him.

Did you even fully read the OP?

The LMG changes patch was designed to tweak the LMG arsenals & take 0.75 ADS off LMG's.

I literally made the OP simple to understand & process from a rational non bias POV...... but clearly you are struggling with this.

If the purpose was to remove 0.75 ADS from all LMGs then the NS-15 would have lost it as well in that patch with all the other LMGs affected and yet it still has 0.75 ADS therefore the intent wasn't to remove ADS from all LMGs.