Skynight Bushido Nonsense

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by JohnGalt36, Dec 30, 2015.

  1. Obscura

    Name and shame these people imo, they are toxic to the game itself and have zero right to behave that way in game towards allies.

    Hell, I say buff A2A lockons a little bit, any time a sky night sheds a tear from dying to A2A lockons I always smile. Sorry Ace, but the game isn't just a nose gun hover duel of "skillz" between two ESF's.

    Don't like lockons? Run stealth, racer, and flares.
  2. Gundem


    They like to specifically use the term "Skyknight" because it lets them sub-consciously validate their false perception of aircraft. If according to the rest of forumside, only Aircraft are hated, they are the most OP and deserve the hardest nerf, right?

    If they admitted that people from all parts of the game had elitist mentality, they would be forced to recognize that Aircraft aren't the single greatest evil to scourge PS2.
    • Up x 1
  3. WeRelic

    So basically, we can shut the hell up because you don't like us? No, I don't think so. You don't find those things engaging? Speak the **** up, thats what the forum is for. It's not entitlement to ask for something reasonable like, oh I don't know, fun and engaging weapons for both shooter and target... The same argument goes for A2G/G2A dynamics, it's often not fun nor engaging, yet there are a lot of people trying to change it, none of which are getting the hate that pilots do over the A2AM debate. How is it any different? People see a problem with the game they play, and act within their power to fix it.

    Let's add lock ons that target infantry. Maybe if we inflate the problem so everyone gets affected it'll be more valid in your opinion. Lock ons are poor game design, period. It doesn't matter if they're only affecting 1% of the game, and it doesn't matter what you think of the players it affects, they're still poor design.

    Can we seriously stop trashing on pilots in general? Not every pilot is an elitist *********. Just ******* stop. The people that TK others for using A2AM aren't Skyknights, they're douchebags. Piloting skill doesn't make them that way, that's just how they are, and I doubt they'd be any different if they had chosen a tank, infantry, or goddamn tap dancing. Please stop lumping every pilot in with that scourge.

    This. I have no issue with there being a skill equalizer. It's a great concept in fact. The problem is that the equalizer we have doesn't help players, it hurts them, on top of being boring for both the user and target. That is a poor design, flat out.

    Also, thank you for proving my point... Most pilots don't want A2AM nerfed into the ground, they want them changed to be more fun and engaging from both the shooter's and the target's perspective.

    EDIT:
    Forgot to mention that most pilots aren't asking people to stop using them, either. That is an important point.
  4. FateJH

    That's because Air was really ridiculous circa 2013. In the trials of specific subsets of the playerbase being told they are being overbearing and that subset saying "no lol l2p," Air is a trend-setter. If you prefer the terminology, they're a "mascot."

    It's not just an old chestnut to say that pilots once made the claim that it was fine if at least a squad devote itself to G2A duty to deal with half as many enemy ESFs and still lose handily.

    Edit: I would also have to delve deep into the annals of the forum but something in my memory makes me think that pilots introduced the "skyknight" terminology in a thread that called people on the ground "peasants."
    • Up x 3
  5. HAXTIME

    I've been told not to camp an enemy warpgate with Lock-ons, basically when I began A2A ESF combat, that's all. I considered that to be a fair thing, but this case here is just disgusting.

    1. Get a life.
    2. Get a rope.

    You are a nobody, and you don't get to make rules. If you are ditching out this much inferiority complex, design your own game, idiot.
    • Up x 3
  6. HadesR


    It also comes down to a certain section ( not all ) of the forumside Air group were highly hypercritical ... On one hand they used to laud " Combined Arms " as to how ground should deal with them, and on the other bemoan ground for not leaving them alone to conduct their Air Jousts ..

    It was a very " Combined arms should apply to everyone but US attitude " that pissed a lot of people off, and all sympathy for any future plight was lost ..
    • Up x 4
  7. Taemien


    Don't worry about him, he got punked out when we brought his friends into the crosshairs. PVP does work sometimes to settle disputes.. or in this case the threat of PVP.

    People love attention and will do or say dumb things to get it. They don't typically like getting their friends wrecked because of it. :D
    • Up x 2
  8. Cirena

    Sure. How about an actual flightmodel that isn't founded in bugs?

    You don't need infantry lockons. You have lolpods.

    e: Nice meltdown btw.
    • Up x 2
  9. WeRelic

    Yeah, I lost my cool, I'm tired of seeing good pilots bashed on and lumped in the same category with elitist douches just because they like to fly. Most pilots aren't like that, they may have been in days past, but I think we can drop that bs by now.

    Let me guess, you fall in the camp of "Don't change lockons because they're purpose built.", and don't see the irony in your complaining about a purpose built weapon immediately after saying pilots shouldn't complain about a purpose built weapon. And people say the pilots are having a circle jerk :rolleyes:
  10. Goretzu

    I'm not entirely sure Lock-ons would make the slightest bit of difference vs Infantry, given the low TTK of pretty much everything against Infantry.

    Of course if Infantry could move at 300 mph there might be need for it (especially having seen a few speed hackers recently), but if the Infantry could then just look at the ground to scrape 90% off then there'd probably still be little point.

    However no decent pilot should ever really die to AA, never mind Lock-on AA, if they do it is because they either overextended or just got plain unlucky (everyone dies in PS2 when they get unlucky, there is no imortality in PS2).

    To be frank Lock-ons (dispite being seriously bugged G2G) are more of a problem for ground vehicles in an area denial sense, than they are Air (as Air can make strafing runs; other than Harrassers, ground vehicles can't). They are pehaps slightly less deadly for ground vehicles, but that's only really because of the flight mechanism that means so many hit the ground.




    A2A Lock-ons on the other hand are entirely the fault of inter-Air balance (infantry has nothing to do with it) - they are simply the ONLY sane reaction to a system that causes pointless newbie difficulty and encourages "elitism" in the context of "in my day I walked up hill to school and up hill back from school and always in the snow - and therefore so should EVERYONE!"

    In that context making them hard to use would be pointless, making them "fun" to use would be fine, but I don't see how it can happen; a lock-on is a lock-on.




    Of course the main issue is really that SOE chose to have one combined ESF fighter frame in PS2, rather than the seperate Mozzy and Reaver (and actually Wasp too) of PS1........ and gave themselves (and everyone else) endless balance headaches with that rather shortsighted and not thought through position.

    A proper seperate A2A fighter could be made effectively immune to all lock-ons (A2A and G2A - so long as it had no A2G capability) AND made to handle in a much more fun, acrobatic and newbie friendly way.......... I don't think that would go down too well with the "Skyknights" either however. This isn't inventing the wheel, however, this is essentially why the Wasp was created in PS1 (and PS1's system was already much better than PS2 in the first place), those that forget the lessons of the past etc.
  11. Cirena


    No. I don't complain about lolpods or the other things in my previous post. I just find them incredibly dull and not at all fun to face off against (except for medkit tanking which should really be fixed yesterday) but I can understand their purpose.

    I just want the turbosperg pilot brigade to understand that they don't get to dictate the terms of engagement 100% of the time and that the whole "but you don't learn anything from using lockons" argument is irrelevant.
    • Up x 2
  12. Moridin6

    crap

    i forgot to buy tomcats
    • Up x 1
  13. JohnGalt36

    UPDATE: The one who was doing the TK'ing, Thehunter5620, hasn't logged on since I reported him, so maybe DGC did something about it!
    I also have been running Tomcats all the time now.
    • Up x 3
  14. SarahM

    There is a certain lobby based game (WT) which pulls of high speed dogfights with a semi-realistic flight model and even combined arms battles with relatively balanced AA units. I'd urge all true pilots to go try it out.

    But back to topic: How effective are tomcats against liberators?
  15. Jawarisin


    Let there be tears.
  16. Gundem


    Depends, they do require you to get closer then you need to if just render plinking, but inside that range you'll get a pretty significant TTK reduction.

    Basically it's the in-between of "I'm not very good and don't trust my ability to dodge enough yet, and ought to stay well outside that Lib's range" and the "I've been doing this for months, Lib's are free certs, lemme grab my Rotary".
  17. WeRelic

    The comment was facetious. There were several people who stated that it's not a problem because it only affects a small percentage of the community, so I offered a way for everyone to experience it. Maybe it'll start getting worked on if enough people realize how lame the system is.

    Lock ons are bad design, whether they're G2G, A2A, G2A or any other style. Lock ons are bad design. I don't die to them often. I'm not even complaining about their implementation. I'm complaining about the design from the ground up. Lock ons are not fun, and not engaging. That is the opposite of what you want in a game, no?

    I'm not a masochist, I don't wish to face off against things that are neither fun nor engaging, and neither do most pilots, or any other group for that matter, yet pilots gets more hate for trying to change anything because people instantly label them as skynights and disregard their opinion.

    You're just reiterating my point. I agree with you, and I think they should be changed to be more fun and engaging, but I also feel the same about A2AM. Most pilots that I've talked to feel the same way. That is what I'm getting at. Pilots just want to face something more fun and engaging, and so does everyone else, yet pilots instantly get hated on for it.

    Why is it that pilots get bashed on when they're trying to make the same argument that everyone else is about the things that bother them? We're literally two sides of the same coin. We're using the same argument to fix something we find lame, except one side gets hated for anything they try to change, and the other gets a pat on the back.

    How is it that no one sees the issue with that?

    Also, the weapon not teaching you to improve is absolutely an issue. I won't get into it now, but it absolutely is an issue.
  18. Silkensmooth

    C4 is hard to deliver to its target.

    A2A missiles would be comparable to c4 if you could chuck c4 from 500 meters from something you couldnt easily outrun.

    I think more people should TK a2a missile pilots, but really who cares? Flying is garbage now with locks and flak and walker sundies everywhere. Most of the so called sky knights have long since left the game or are simply playing infantry or driving an EZ mode tank.
  19. Silkensmooth

    This isnt war. Its a game. Its supposed to be fun.

    A2A missiles are even less fun for new pilots than for skyknights btw.

    Good pilots can often overcome a single a2a missle attack by utilizing proper coutering techniques which are not really available to the unskilled newer pilots.

    The problem with a2a missiles is that they remove the fun from flying for everyone involved. sure noobs will say they ENJOY locking people, but what they really enjoy is being able to win without skill. The actual locking is very boring. If they made a solo console game with a lock-on mechanic people would play it for 5 minutes before getting very bored.

    Imagine playing a game where the computer did most of the work for you. Playing super mario brothers and all you have to do is run and every time you come to an obstacle the computer jumps over it perfectly.

    Thats what lock ons are like.

    They are solely there so that people with less skill can beat people with more skill which to me goes completely against what a fps is all about. FPS is all about skill and aiming, else why not just make it a tab target game? Why not just hand out aimbots to everyone?

    All you have to do is aim in the general direction of the enemy and get all headshots all the time!!!

    Thats what locks are like, especially in a group setting which is where air fights can be really fun. Sky jousting is always fun, but it gets boring after a while, but big dynamic fights are fun. Problem is half the pilots are noobs who play light assault and just want to pad stats.

    It is the skilless stat padders who have no desire or ability to actually be competitive. Those are always the people who flock to such weapons.

    Some of us want to test our skill. We enjoy the challenge of the nosegun, the ability to become better which does not exist with the locks. You are as good as you will ever be with them after an hour of use.

    Whats the point of winning if the computer did it all for you? I feel bad for people who cant win without locks and then try to justify it by saying that its a war and anything goes. They will always be mediocre in everything they do.

    Of course if you are just using them to kill ground pounders who are farming you then i have no problem with that. Ground pounders deserve to die horrible deaths.
    • Up x 2
  20. WeRelic

    I think this forum needs a reminder of that every day.