The Big Bad Pistol Thread

Pistols are in a bad spot right now, specifically the Empire specific options. They under-perform greatly in every metric compared to the NS revolvers save the Default's for total kills. It should NOT be this way. Nerfs are almost never the answer. So this thread will be about how to make sidearms a competitive part of gameplay again. I will start with the TR (I feel TR is in the best spot as of now) then move on to NC and VS depending on feedback. I will not say I am an expert on game design or balance, but I have a good grasp of what should be, and what should not. That said; I own on my varied accounts every sidearm in the game and their attachments (yes even The crossbow with explosive bolts). So without further stalling, lets get into the stats!


Theoretical TTK's

This is good, there is not too much variance in Theoretical TTK with the lower section of this graph but what in the name of Higby is that Red line doing up there!?

The technical term is "being an AMP"

What is wrong with this?

A lot, first of all it shows a major damage deficiency in the T-4 AMP. This is a gun which provides no advantages over the default pistol other than the convenience of being fully automatic. It is a wanna-be mini armistice with an ugly model, a plain weird reload mechanic and the worst damage since the uh uh.... uh.... idk but its bad. It should be slightly more competitive. So in order to rectify this I propose either a buff to CoF bloom and an increase to 24 Rounds per mag OR A limited CoF like the MCG or the Vulcan. "But Joexer, none of those effect the TTK!" and i say WRONG, while it may not result in a Theoretical TTK boost It will improve the accuracy of your shots which directly effects, Practical TTK. No one is 100% accurate. There is a fine line between steping on and crushing the competition (in this case the TX-1) so i would honestly leave the damage as is!



Next up, The Repeater! Whats wrong? Nothing. NEXT.


Emperor, Same as above. It is performing as it should imo, it is probably the 5th best sidearm after the 2 revolvers, the repeater, and the Desert Eag.... I MEAN The Rebel.


So inquisitor, what does it need. Well first off I will say this gun is an example of perfect balance (except one thing) it doesn't step on the Emperor's or the Repeater's toes. But that one glaring flaw is minor. It's theoretical DPS is practically impossible. 9 clicks per second is whats required to achieve maximum DPS. That is neigh impossible sans a macro. So for this I propose a 2 round burst and a trade off of slightly higher bloom.



Thats all for my first Major post, And again I will continue with NC, and VS and finally the good ol' space-mart Nanite Systems in the following days.

Sidearms should not be a "competitive" choice compared to long arms. Sidearms are meant to be significantly inferior to long arms, hence the Stalker Infiltrator being limited to sidearms as a handicap.

Sidearms already do far too much damage. The .44 caliber (11.17mm) Blackhand revolver, for example, does 450 damage. Which is twice the damage of a 40mm Skyguard shell (200 damage) or even more than a 75mm Viper cannon (345 direct damage).

Essentially, you have this:



Doing over twice as much damage as this:



And more damage than this:



That's just completely unacceptable. Either sidearms need to be significantly toned down, or those heavier weapons need to be significantly dialed up.

Dia

Dial up, I'm shure dial up.

Realism doesn't make games better.

40mm shells smacking someone in the chest and having them walk away also doesn't make games better.

High damage revolvers shouldn't have been added in the first place.

Yes, it does. It brings balance by making different weapons have different purposes. That's what makes it AA gun, not "anti everything" gun.

People don't complain about lack of realism in MOBA or MMORPG games. Because sentence "nobody could walk away after being hit by a frost spell in the chest" sounds utterly ridiculous. I don't see how PS2 is different.

Why not? Competitive doesn't mean equal.



Is incredibly accurate for its size. Its small enough to be classified as a pistol and only becomes an AOW when a vertical foreward grip is added. Very low recoil, especially when a muzzle brake is installed. Much lower than a .357 Mag (Underboss) or a .44 Mag (Commissioner). I would know because I've fired and own all three types of weapons mentioned.

Though now that I mention it.. an ES sidearm capable of foreward grips, compensaters and other attachments sounds pretty cool.

I rax'd the AMP a while back, I thought it was pretty fun. It's a neat little bullet hose. A mag size buff wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure if it would help much, either. If the general consensus on the AMP is that it's trash, then I guess they might as well hand it a few buffs. I don't think it's in a bad spot, though. It's really limited in terms of range, but I don't think every gun should be able to reach out and touch at any range. The AMP blows people away in CQC, (in my experience) that's its thing.

what 40mm weapon does less dmg then a commie?

This is where I have to disagree. This is a game and as such damage doesnt have to make logical sense, It has to make for good gameplay. Im no ballistics expert but I think Pistols should do similar damage to a small caliber rifle at very close ranges. 10mm at 390m/s ala emperor should do about the same damage as an SMG or small cal. AR(ie-torq). Also the DBG purposefully put in a stalker cloaker. If they didnt think that sidearms=longarms why would they add a gun which 90% of stalkers ive seen use where the sidearm>the longarm and not nerf it into oblivion. I would take a commie over the failstorm any day. My point is its too late to nerf the commie/ub. Lets buff everything else to meet them instead.

See post #2

I'd have to agree that the ES pistols do lack some punch that the NS ones have. And they don't really give anything in return other than suppressor compatibility.

But I like that the NS pistols are revolvers. I really do and like the others have said.. don't nerf them. Just give the ES ones their own niche as Semi-autos (minus the repeater of course).

In the future, please indicate which coloured lines represent which weapon. Your graph is practically useless!

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on the subject of nerfs. I think (most of) the ES pistols don't really need buffs, so much as the NS revolvers need nerfs. The Commissioner, for example, can easily effectively replace a primary in a number of scenarios, whereas an ES pistol (barring TX1 Repeater, Rebel) might not.

The NS revolvers are simply just too powerful and versatile, in my opinion.

I look forward to it.

Realism doesn't always make games better.
There's a reason even the most realistic games cut away things like servicing, refueling, have a simplistic repair system and re-arm system etc. This is because those realism parts aren't fun.
Having realism is in many ways good for the game, but in the end it's the game that takes priority. Damage models, rules and gameplay needs to be fun. It doesn't even have to be balanced, having a majorly imbalanced game can be incredibly fun (although good luck pulling that off).

They should have the characters needing to eat, poop and pee.
And every day, your character should also have a % chance to die of old age and get deleted.
Your character also has a chance to spend 6 months recovering at the warpgate when you get shot, instead of dying and getting deleted.
Im sure more people would want to play PS2 if it had more realism at the expense of fun.

except viper deals 345 damage direct and 450 splash, so you're actually doing 795 damage on a direct hit.

as for skyguard, it would be hilariously OP if skyguard was doing realistic damage to infantry,
it is designed to be a dedicated AA weapon that is capable of dealing light damage to infantry and ground vehicles.

ES Revolvers anyone?

To those who complain about realism, where the fkuc were you guys when everyone was complain that vehicles were OP? First was the tanks farming infantry so they nerfed the splash dmg and radius.

Then it was the ESF rocket podding everyone so that got nerfed to hell so now you literally have to land direct hits WITH GODDAMN ROCKETS on squishy infantry. Then it was the libs who literally farmed infantry with absolute impunity. Those got nerfed so much that they are now just big, fat, unwieldy ESF doing low passes.

Then it was the Lightnings with the HE guns. Then when the harasser guns were nerfed to hell too. Remember how much salt there was about the PPA and the Marauder?

Every single fkcing heavy weapon was doing it's job "realistically" and then was nerfed to hell because people were crying that each and every single FREAKING ONE WAS OP.

Whoever is complaining that some of the infantry guns are doing more dmg than crew served weapons, you can go skuc a dcik for all I care.

I don't really care about Empire specific pistols or pistols in general as they're too damn expensive. I can buy the most powerful/effective sniper rifle/ SMG/LMG for the price of a ESP. FFS make them cheaper as they're a massive turn off when i can afford bigger, better stuff for a 1000 certs!

Pistols will probably be the last weapon i'll purchase for my 1000 certs.