What defines a good outfit?

Let's say there is a charismatic leader with actual military background and a bunch of followers. The leader has his inner circle of buddies and everyone else is replaceable and therefore doesn't matter. He treats his friends with respect and is rude to the other members. Nobody dares to speak up, because they all fear his wrath.

The primary method of that outfit can be defined as zerging down objectives like lemmings. It's a constant flow of Gal-drop, death, respawn, death, rez, death, rez, death, respawn, Gal-drop and so on. On an average outfit night they accomplish pretty much nothing, except ghost-capping a few bases. The overall skill level is generally undefined, because people are dead more often than alive, but every once in a while they actually manage to blow up a Sunderer which is treated like a huge success.

Suggestions for improvement get ignored unless they come from a buddy of the leader who are all officers of course. The overall motto of that outfit is "teamwork and discipline" and it seems to draw mostly players who want to be screamed at and who want to be abused, because it gives them the illusion of being in a military organization. The outfit believes that they are better than everyone else of course.

Would that be a good outfit? If not, what should a good outfit look like?

Naturally nothing you listed makes for a good outfit / group, but then again making passive aggressive posts and airing dirty laundry to the public doesn't exactly reflect well either.

It's not my outfit, I am just an observer

The funny thing is that you are right, naturally nothing on the list makes up for a good outfit. Nevertheless the outfit in question has almost 500 people on their roster. To be fair, most of them are inactive. On outfit nights they still manage to get a full platoon online.

I kept away from clans for a long time. I was with a great clan early doors and learned so much from them but more importantly they were a great bunch of guys, we had a lot of fun, but they all stopped playing PS2. I flirted with one or 2 but never enjoyed their tactics, quite similar to what you describe, but being an xclan leader from a different game i have my take on what should be a good clan leader and felt some people well were just idiots with a power trip attached their small *****.

I just joined Elme and im very impressed. Very organised, they do training for new players to the game, they have fun but more importantly, we can make a difference to an alert with the vast numbers we have and making a difference with a well organized clan for me makes the game more enjoyable.

A good outfit should be organised. The bigger the outfit the more leaders it needs. For every 12 players an outfit needs at least one leader, otherwise you will end up having squad leaders who do not lead. Such "leaders" usually just place all the waypoints on one facility and that's it, their leading duty is done. And when 4 such squads form a platoon you can expect nothing more than just zerging one facility or farming a biolab... essentially you end up with a KOTV-like zergfit.

Well, even KOTV usually gets the job done. Where exactly is the gain when pretty much every approach leads to the same outcome, as long as you got the pop-advantage? I hope you see my point. If it either doesn't matter at all or only leads to a rather marginal gain in the end, it's probably not worth the effort and it clearly isn't worth the downside.

setting up a functional outfit is a lot of hard work. its not like a wow guild that run raids that people can memorize their roles for. it takes some real training and dedication to see the pay off. The gain is usually functional platoon that can stomp a zerg and actually effect the map instead of just follow a waypoint.

The linchpin of the entire operation is a dedicated and knowledgeable leader. In your OP that is not what you describe, its sounds more like an old army grunt who wanted to play officer with his old buds and just needs some meat to throw at a point.

Don't get me wrong. The "charismatic" leader is really very good at it. The problem is that he is so good, that he is overshadowing the whole outfit and when he is offline or busy with other stuff, the quality drops off by at least 80%. Besides that, he clearly knows that it all depends on him.

The problem with the whole organization is, that you have to judge them by their results, but unfortunately they don't produce anything significant. They do the usual infantry-air-drops and always get wiped by MAX-units and that for 2-3 hours straight. They fail to understand that MAX-units are the hard counter to infantry and if you tell them, you get asked to shut the f... up

So it all comes down to a single question: If you as a member are supposed to accept constant verbal abuse and you are supposed to sacrifice yourself and die between 100-150 times during these events without accomplishing anything, that any other random outfit wouldn't have accomplished just as well, why should you stay with them? It's a rhetorical question of course. The answer is, that there is no reason. Maybe it's cool to wear the outfit-tag, like showing that you are part of an "elite" or something, I can't tell.

What defines a good Outfit? Taken into context the prefixes of:
A) Can fill at least Platoon.
B) Have leaders on coms, be it ingame, ts or other.
C) Have a basic set of tactics that people dont need to be spoon fed what to do all the time.

What defines a good Outfit? Results vs Numbers.
Yeah, its that simple. You have ABC and you can beat (conquer, not just farm!) 45 with 30, you are a good outfit.
If you however always out pop or vehicle zerg the enemies 2-1. Then your organizational stuff is more fluff in a strait up fight and its more about switching ones momentum around on enemy weakspots with overwhelming forces, which might still bring victory, BUT the outfit as a core is not good. In a Outfit vs Outfit fight, such outfits would most likely lose.

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How to organize and maintain a good outfit however is a totally separate subject that ironically can have nothing to do with the results ingame at all and there even good outfits can fall pray to "Elitism".

the term you're looking for there is zerging

Complimentary colors with a highlight of some kind, similar style across all pieces is nice too, unless you're deliberately going for an off-the-wall type of thing.

Wait, what?

imho a good outfit should be able to get the job done with as few men as possible.
i'm always impressed when small outfits manage to cap a base while we're throwing everything we have at them!

a bad outfit will resort to TRIDing and TFDNing it.

For me an outfit is only as good as it's weakest link.

Ideally everyone In the outfit should be up to a standard where anyone can lead and everyone is flexible. This is how i am trying to make mine on the ps4 but it's really hard as people are extremely newbish in general.

I've just recently booted about 40 people who were barely on, used comms or took part in anything.

Here's our recruitment thread - https://forums.daybreakgames.com/ps2/index.php?threads/the-trc-is-recruiting.231310/

Here's our site - http://terranrepubliccommandostrc.shivtr.com/

You can't view the site but you can see the application form. Considering our presentation, it appears that a lot of people are literally lying on their apps and/or are not being completely honest. This is roughly 40% of all apps and it is a headache.

I sense too much hate for Zerg-outfits. In fact they understood game-mechanics rather well. You shouldn't blame people for choosing a strategy that works, blame the developers instead.

The problem with outfits is that they are trying to make a difference through their structure and their routines, but in most cases their success is based on other factors. If you win, because for whatever reason your guys simply converted a pop-advantage without even knowing, it certainly was not because of your awesome teamwork or your even better leadership. If you go through your outfit nights or operations, you will notice that success is hardly ever based on teamwork or leadership. It is mostly based on your ability to respawn closer to the battle than the enemy. In other words, it is based on an imbalance in numbers and that's nothing other than a different form of zerging after all.

As usual it is very hard to analyze such constellations and it is very easy to blame the wrong factors for failure and to praise the wrong factors for success. In the end, regardless what people think how good they are or how great their leadership is, 99% of wins in Planetside 2 are based on population imbalance. The reason for that are medics, who can simply erase most individual mistakes within a couple of seconds, which is the great skill-equizer. Even a KD of 5:1 doesn't matter, if the 5 guys are back in the battle roughly two seconds later.

If you think about that, you can draw a lot of conclusions about outfits and what is actually important and what isn't.

P.S.: There is another hidden factor that people tend to overlook and that is the average battlerank of the people involved. Besides a lot of experience, players with high battleranks usually have lots of cert-points which will help your operations tremendously. On the other hand, if your outfit has a ton of new players, it is no wonder if they die like flies, because they will hardly have Flak-Armor at rank 5 for instance. Don't forget that this goes both ways. In other words, winning a battle by beating a lot of new players may give you a wrong impression about yourself.

As you can see from my signature, I'm the leader of a very small VS outfit on the Miller server, (EU), and when I say small, I meansmall. For I'd much prefer to be the leader of a small size outfit rather than the sprawling ones we see nowadays. Fundamentally, I try to give each of my members a good experience and friendly reception. This is why I don't want my outfit to become massive, because I appreciate each member more and treasure them as a part of my outfit. Though when I say "my", I really mean "our". Here are my 6 philosophies, (for want of a better word), to running the outfit myself and a handful of friends founded, Prime Aspect...

• Make your members feel welcomed and appreciated - whenever a member of Prime Aspect is on-line, I will always try to be friendly and offer support. I produce some small talk, (little things like "How was your day?", or "How are you feeling?" really make the difference), and will invite them to a squad, (which eventually expands rapidly due to myself having an alarmingly high [YELL] chat window presence, and encouraging people to join). I will provide tuition if they want me to - as we speak, I am preparing lessons for a fellow outfit member on how to fly the Scythe a little better - and I will always have an active presence in the outfit chat window. This is why I like being a leader of a small outfit. I know each member, and can communicate with them easier. I appreciate each member more, and treasure the fact that they are a part of the outfit I founded. One of the most crucial parts of leading an outfit is to welcome each member as family, and make them feel welcomed.

• Never pester people to join or re-join your outfit - this is something that many smaller ones do, though I try to avoid. Remember that it's not your game that matters, it's the game of the people in your outfit, and everyone else too. If they don't feel that your outfit is right for them, and either decline your invitation or leave, don't pester them relentlessly and beg for them to join. If they're not enjoying it, or don't feel that you're right for them, let them find their own path. After all, as I said, you should be more concerned about the fun each member of your outfit, those who have left, and those you want to join are having. It isn't the size of your outfit that should matter, it's the fun that people have in the game. If they don't feel that your outfit is right for them, don't pressure them into joining. Respect that they want to have fun, and let them find another outfit that brings them the joy and feeling that they're seeking.

• Be charismatic and respectful to others - there are no exceptions! I may seem like an arrogant, egotistical twit on these forums, though in-game, I respect others, have a high chat presence, and try to be an all-round nice guy. If people see that you're nice, they'll join your outfit squads. If they see that you're respectful, they'll show interest in joining your outfit. Being respectful of other outfits is also crucial. I honour all other outfits regardless of faction, and will always help them out if they want advertisements, recommendations etc. Sometimes, working alongside other outfits is a good thing because it really shows you respect them, which in turn will also make them respect you. The phrase "Treat other people as you would like to be treated" gets thrown around a lot these days. Here, it is of the utmost importance that you communicate with others with careful consideration of this. Of course, try to avoid intimidating other members, and don't be too full-on. Be passively charismatic, and appear strong minded, though be modest, calm, and try not to make other outfit members feel small.

• Trust each outfit member - this is fundamentally a part of making them feel welcome. I like to make outfit members feel like they can make a difference to the way that Prime Aspect is run, so I promote them all to Officer rank, and have changed their privileges so that they can change the message of the day, can invite people to the outfit, and other such abilities. While, of course, you urgently need restraints, (myself and my fellow leaders, for example, are the only ones who can kick other members, because for one I don't trust that we will recruit someone who will be intent on ruining everything else for others). Though try to make each outfit member feel that they can make a difference to the outfit they are a part of. Listen to their ideas, and act upon them. Let them invite their own friends, and let them update messages, and contribute to our little Community.

• Stay open, and stay friendly - don't let your position of power corrupt you, and try to keep your doors open to all potential players. Of course, if you're running a competitive, or hardcore outfit, then by all means set statistical restraints on who can join, though casual outfits like mine should stick with their guns and always welcome those who want to join. Appeal to a wider audience, and never criticise players in your outfit for their skill in this game. Encourage them to try, and offer support and tuition. Again, this ultimately is another branch of making your outfit members feel welcome, though staying friendly and keeping your doors open to everyone in your faction can really make all the difference to your popularity. Moreover, it'll also hopefully make your outfit members see that you yourself aren't that bad a guy. If you respect others, and are always friendly and charismatic, as well as keep your doors open to everyone without exclusion, (unless they are notorious trolls or have a history of causing arguments in your outfit previously), people will respect you.

• It's not "My Outfit"; It's "Our Outfit" - If I have said at any point that Prime Aspect is my outfit, then disregard it. I may be a leader, (and one of its founders), though I do not explicitly possess this outfit. So long as a member is a part of the outfit, they own it just as well as you do. There's no "I" in We. There's no "I" in Team. There's no "I" in Together. Run an outfit of the people, by the people, for the people.

TL;DR - be nice, and don't focus on the meaningless number that is your outfit membership over the actual members of your outfit. Respect, honour, and cherish each player who comes and goes.

Have fun.
Cyn.

In my opinion a good outfit:

• Is consistently active
• Recognizes good players
• Recognizes improvement
• Respects a chain of command

I'm sure there are other things, but these are things I look for. Currently, the outfit I'm a part of is inactive, but I'm not yet looking for an active outfit because I can't yet contribute the time I deem sufficient to being a good outfit member.

I'm in the unpleasant position of informing all you scepticists that :
ZERG > ALL

Now i hope you all realize that this thread is nothing more than a waste of thoughts, sadly.

You come asking what makes a good outfit but then declare that you don't believe in the things that make a good outfit good. If you truly believe that teamwork and leadership don't have a significant impact on how battles play out, then you've simply never experienced either of them done right.

A good outfit is one that provides fun experience - which is different to different people.

But fun can be:
- killing infantry
- using vehicles a lot
- doing hit-and-runs
- capping bases
- defending bases
- doing Spec Ops with small forces
- doing large battles


For me - it's anything organized that make sense. Any group that has suicidal tendencies is not my cup of tea. Any group that watches out for team-members and covers their backs is defiantly my kind of group regardless of what they are doing with just two exceptions:

- not interested in zergs
- not interested ghost capping.

The thing that can really annoy me is how outfit members can often miss the fact that they are part of what makes an outfit and they don't help when/if times get bad at all.

It's like they can miss the fact that they are a part of what makes an outfit and they talk about any problems as if it is a separate issue when it is directly tied to them and everyone in the outfit.