Betels numbers are totaly off

Reminds me of "nerf Orion" threads started by Collin.

Did you even read the post I made?

I merely pointed out some other weapons that were out performing their counter parts, if you don't believe me well, basic comprehension must not be your thing.

The Betelgeuse, Butcher and GodSaw ironically are not in the same category of LMG's as each other much like the T9 Carv, Orion and Gauss Saw aren't. Orion and Betelgeuse are CQC weapons, much like the Anchor and MSW-R whilst the Saw and Butcher are longer ranged. This means that balancing them is going to be hard.

Betelgeuse needs to be balanced against the other CQC weapons like the Orion and Anchor
Butcher has to be balanced against the T9 Carv and so on.

However most of the posts here can be boiled down to

Waaa waa this gun is op

Er no its not

Yes it is

Etc etc, in other words not very constructive crying about who has the best toys, rather then acceptance of the stats and working to either tone it down slightly or to improve the others in group to the same level.

Shotguns are terrible CQC weapons. Their low ROF punishes you when you miss, a Pulsar C is better than a baron because it fires faster and thus less punishing when you miss

to be fair we are all pathetic,

Were all complaining about some really autistic **** on a forum that is only monitored by a community manager and im 90% sure hes only laughing at all of us all the time

The Betel is fine its a VS weapon and the VS weapons have an inherent issue and thats in their base design. The VS weapons tend to be the only ones that get any sort of unique mechanic that increases its performance despite no statistic difference otherwise. The problem is theese are harder to balance if you change the Betel the thing will probably end up in a state of uselessness ( not that that would be too bad almost all Directive weapons are downgrades from their original counterparts do to their built in loadouts.) But ide prefer it to be a tad overpowered than another PPA/ZOE.

No contribution to your post but thank you for reminding me your name so I can report your immature posts and add you to my arsholes blacklist

Isn't a game with many class/vehicles?. It's just another "Nerf vanu plz nerf post". I enjoy playing as tr for his medic/light assault same as i enjoy playing with my mercenary...I enjoy the butcher the same way as i enjoy the betelgeuse (if even more), and i don't even compare them to anchor/cyclone. We all have good guns, maybe sometime you have to unlock it or sometime you have it by default.
If you could have better suggestion (add new attachments?) or make this game run better(optimisation etc) maybe one day i will +1 your posts.

HV-45 is fair at bullet hose my friend, but try terminus, try it! That thing is crack!

HV45 is a side grade of the TAR and GR8.and yea,the ONLY good unique VS AR is the terminus

Problems about sidegrades?

Yea,NC and TR got more good and unique ARs (and carbines as well) while the only good category for VS is LMGs which you guys keep complaining hard about

I think a large part of that, is that the lack of VS unique weapons is still easily supplemented with NS weapons or other weapon categories.
The assault rifles all have good stock weapons, if you want cqc you can run with an SMG, you suffer a little bit if you want more range, but how much really with good stock AR's, depending on who you are for example, I love the NC warden cross-class scout rifle, but many hate it.
The VS carbines have the same story, although the discrepancy is probably more than for AR's.
End result though is that both AR and carbines all have at least one or 2 good ones, and the LMG issue is a problem of much "higher intrinsic value". Flavor versus value in essence.
Then when you consider that the flavor and value go hand in hand in other categories too, for VS. Like Lashers, lancers, whom aren't OP conceptually, are fundamentally such a different flavor they have a role unknown to the other factions.
What you say is totally valid, so I don't want to turn a whine upside down so to speak .
But I don't think you can look at the VS small arms line-up and see a utility-failure, whereas there is a real problem with the BG.
I honestly don't rage about that gun. But I know it is a little f.u.b.a.r.
One of the most common death moments is reloading, but it also breaks momentum when I have the upper hand. If you reposition while you reload you risk death, with a BG you better be repositioning while reloading. Not only that, if you burst half a clip, you can always keep the pressure up staying down sights as your weapon reloads at .75 movement. You can run around with almost never being caught with your pants down, and reloading consists of shooting ppl with your secondary. Not jsut that, but unlimited ammo, is just huge on a suppression class, I mean HUGE, scream-locked. Edit:Especially the synergy of no ammo and adrenaline shield.

VS arsenal is mostly lackluster in long range ARs wich can be filled with NS11A pretty nicely. (yeah it's sad to use NS weapons, but at least you still have something very stong)

Otherside, they have strong options in close/long range & all rounders weapons in every department.

It's far to justify such ovepowered weapon than BG.

Why do you think I gave up fighting them long ago? If it's an alert, then I pull my **** together and suck it up. Otherwise, they can go back and stat-pad all day. At least I'm not getting *****.

Basically the situation with the BG is that it's a straight upgrade to an already very solid weapon.

The Orion is already essentially a more accurate CARV. To be specific it's a CARV with a shorter reload, better hipfire characteristics, no bullet drop, and less recoil. What it loses in exchange are 30 m/s of velocity that you don't really notice, and 50 rounds of magazine size that you aren't likely to miss outside of a few very rare circumstances (because the Orion can just reload quickly, it's easy to keep it topped off). While you may feel like nitpicking over just how useful no bullet drop is on an LMG, the fact is you don't really sacrifice anything to gain it on this gun so there's no reason to complain about getting a free bonus.

So now the BG takes a weapon that is already a better CARV, and gives you a straight upgrade to that too. It can still mag dump for 49 rounds (and you're reeeeally not going to care about not having that 1 bullet), while even a tiny bit of fire discipline can easily keep that magazine going indefinitely and its bottomless magazine pool greatly reduces the VS heavy's dependence on engineers. It's an especially strong bonus on the VS, because their engineers are notorious for never dropping ammo. It's also the only LMG that can immediately interrupt its "reload" (cooling down) by firing.

So basically the Orion is a CARV+1, and the Betelgeuse is a CARV+2. Is it any wonder then that they perform so well, or that they're so popular?

Of course the Orion is better than the Carv (all be it not by much) as its competitor is the MSW-R (for the TR) and Anchor (for the NC) which both sport ALS and SPA unlike the Orion.

How is the VS counterpart to the Carv or Gauss Saw doing?

And thus yes the Betelgeuse as its better then the Orion would indeed be better than the Carv, try comparing it to the Anchor or MSW-R for a more complete picture and the Butcher/Carv against the VS counterpart

Please say this in reddit

Yea,but only 1 unique CQC AR for VS and all out long range ones are downgrades from other weapons.TR got 2 unique CQC weapons while NC got 2 unique long range ones,a very powerful AR that can deal in all situations (gauss riftle) and a unique CQC weapon (carnage)

Mixter Don't try to teach me how i should play my medic please all my guns are already auraxiumed (same as my tr medic...). Everyone know that vs AR are all downgrades. So what? other guns are op, or just better? Infact there will allways one gun better to another, and complaints will never stop until the game die by itself. I don't care.

since nov29/2012...