TIL, "Damage" velocity=/=Bullet Velocity

So I was out of curiosity watching stuff on Dasanfall about weapons and I saw an interesting thing. Apparently, the tracers we see from our weapons have different velocity than the damage itself from the weapon. Basically the weapon shoots invisible bullet that does the damage and visible one at the same time and they have different velocities.

This is of course from a fan site so I have no idea if this is actually correct but most of the time the stuff there is.

On most weapons this is not big of a difference, usually 10-20 m/s faster/slower.

Then I started to look at sniper rifles.

On the TR quick bolt sniper, the velocity of the visible bullet is 50 m/s faster. This is IMO quite a lot and can affect how you try to account movement when you aim. RAMS, the long range sniper of TR, has 100 m/s slower visible projectile. This is even more.

I checked SR-7 and M77-B too and saw all the TR BASR have 550 m/s visible bullet velocity. Basically M77-B has the only velocity that matches the visible one. However NC and Vanu had the visible velocity wrong on many sniper rifles, but it could be different than on the other sniper rifles.

The most enormous difference that I found was on Railjack. 850 m/s damage velocity compared to 600 m/s visible one. 250 m/s difference is quite a lot I think.

So, to make this thread not die, TSAR and SAS-R have 50 m/s faster visible projectile while Ghost has same velocity on the visible one.

OP nerf dat.






(just joking)


So to finally ask, if this is actually true, why does it exist?

I must say I never noticed this. Shooting long range was (99%) like this: if tracer landed on moving target, I got a hit...

So dunno ^_^

Oh, so THAT's why I can see the sniper bullet go straight through someone's head and it still misses... Outside of sniping, I think this is probably such a small issue that it isn't noticeable. I don't use tracers to lead when I'm using automatics, and I doubt many people will.

Of course on automatic weapons it doesn't affect barely all because 1. You won't look at tracers most likely, as DashRendar said, and 2. The velocity difference is really small on most weapons.

However on sniper rifles it is very noticeable (if this all is true). Doesn't affect me much as I barely play with snipers but at least I look at where the tracer goes when I try to shoot something to really long ranges with snipers. If the tracers are completely wrong, on long distances the difference could be significant.

Does this mean that drop on some snipers is actually less than it appears?

Question: How exactly is this being tested?

It's pulled from PS2's API.

Maybe it's the tracer that enemies see that has different properties? Maybe you see your own tracer as you should?

That would explain a lot with regards to the Railjack.

This sounds completely unnecessary and bad for gameplay to me.

Anyone know more about this?

Clientside strikes again!

If my hypothesis is correct, there's really no harm in it. Rendering each tracer exactly isn't needed anyway. Their main job is to show where the fire is coming from.

ITs kind of like watching every tracer miss you on your screen, then instantly fall over dead to a ting. clientside for the win.

Yeah, I have not noticed any troubles ether.

Yes, I've always had serious issues with landing my shots with both the RAMS and RJ.
(FAR far worse with the RJ though.)

Before now I've always attributed the horrible feeling of "odd lagginess" between firing and hitting or missing a target with the delay mechanic, but maybe this is what's been throwing me so terribly off.

I would love a velocity buff to most guns.....

Well that would explain a few things while sniping. But my main question, if this actually true, why even have them at different velocities in the first place. Why not just pull the data for both projectiles from the same data point.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

What you may have been experiencing is the draw distance of your particles. Unless you have particles at least at high, you may be thinking you're leading correctly, but your tracer just vanishes and you don't lead enough. Of course Ultra is the best. Test your draw distance in VR and WG.

Other than that, I used to snipe with 8x a lot and never had problems with "hit detection" or "shot registering".

We should wait until there is a video proof of this. Like Iridar said:

not a problem if it's like this.

if this is true it would explain alot,
i mean i wondered why bullets didn't register, and why the low RoF weapons of the nc seemed to have poor hit detection, they would be far more visible to this effect,

If this is true which I don't doubt, this sounds like a bigger issue to me than any other on the list of current issues I have heard,,,
would love to see what the devs say or any slomo proof or chart on the subject,

this would represent a huge learning curve issue, people learn the speed of the projectile from the visual display a false sense of speed isnt going to mess up your one show but it wold mean you would have a harder time learning it,

From the sounds of this, this actually would only affect weapons at a more extreme distance than at which most small arms are used, at the range where bullet drop is actually a significant issue.
Also, rate of fire is not the same as muzzle velocity. The speed of the tracers would be more associated with the latter.

I'm going to suggest that perhaps the tracers are not "projectiles" as normally defined by the game and therefore are not perfectly subject to the same properties and influences as "bullets" are. The modified muzzle velocity is to account for the parts of the tracer that is not a "bullet."

Tracers serve one purpose, and one purpose only.

It's to render the bullet trajectory visible to the shooter, so the person shooting can make corrections to their aim based off the previous bullet trajectory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracer_ammunition
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=581985
http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/brai...thing-we-have-right-now-to-laser-blasters.htm

The DOWNSIDE to them, is that it does also work in reverse to an extent.
This is a side effect, NOT their purpose.

Really? who cares.

Oh noes my bullets and tracers don't line up!!!

With all the lag, delay, and crap anyway, nothing really "lines up". As long as they die when I shoot them, I can care less if the visual effect is a millisecond of from the actual bullet.

Lets focus on real stuff that matters in this game and not nitpick the little silly stuff mmmkay?