[Suggestion] Can TR Have Our Trait Back?

TR's trait is supposed to be high RoF/high ammo capacity. And yet...
(Comparing to NC's high damage)
Carbines:
TR: Lynx at 909, vs GD-7F at 845. Difference: +7.6%
NC: AC-X11 at 200, vs Cougar at 167. Difference: +19.8%

SMGs:
TR: Armistice at 896, vs Blitz at 845. Difference: +6%
NC: Cyclone at 167, vs everything at 125. Difference: +33.6%

Assault Rifles:
TR: TORQ-9 at 857, vs GR-22 at 800. Difference: +7%
NC: Reaper DMR at 200, vs SABR-13 at 167. Difference: +19.8%

LMGs:
TR: A lot at 750, vs EM1 at 652. Difference: +15%
NC: SAW at 200, vs TMG at 167. Difference: +19.8%

Average:
TR: +8.9%
NC: +23.3%

As this data shows, NC (and VS, as no one else has heat or no-drop, though those are relatively minor) have far, far stronger faction traits than TR. I wouldn't call that especially fair; if you play TR for fast firing weapons, you'll get an SMG that's less than 1/16 faster, while the NC gets one that's more than 1/3 harder-hitting.

So I would suggest modifying at least one TR weapon in each category, boosting its RoF to match the NC's damage edge. Adjust damage and ammo capacity proportionally, to maintain equal or better DPS and damage per magazine. Possibly all weapon RoFs, apart from those, could also be increased a bit to match how a huge number of NC weapons are 167 or how almost all VS weapons are no-drop, while the weapons listed follow the first solution.

So that would look like this:
Carbines:
845*1.198 = 1012 RPM on the Lynx presumably.

SMGs:
845*1.336 = 1129 RPM on the Armistice presumably.

ARs:
800*1.198 = 958 RPM on the TORQ presumably.

LMGs:
652*1.198 = 781 RPM on whatever our CQC LMG is.

I'm not so sure % is exactly the number you should be using to compare, if at all.

That said I do agree. TR as a faction has really been stepped on in terms of their trait (so has NC, though more with NS secondaries and vehicle guns).

I don't think any faction should have any more than one of the 'average' tier weaponry of the other factions, and no faction should have a 'super' trait of the other factions ever. So 167 damage is the "average NC" tier, and 750 rof is the "average TR" tier (and poor VS get shafted because nobody knows what their trait should be, but that's another thread I think).

So NC should have a single weapon (per weapon class) that has 750 rof, but never above that. They also should have a weapon (or more, for the sake of faction-ness) that has 'super trait' (200+ dmg).

TR too should have a single gun that does 167 dmg, but no more. They should also have a weapon(s) that has 800+ Rof.

So basically, TR guns should never do more than 167 dmg, but can have RoF that goes up to the sky. NC guns should never have greater than 750 RoF, but their guns can shoot bullets that can do as much damage as high velocity gold bricks.

And VS can cry in a corner I guess until we find something to give their guns.

Of the weapons listed, on my TRs I primarily use Lynx and Armistice and love those weapons. I won't complain if they get buffed, but I really don't think they need it.

It wouldn't really be an overall buff--DPS and damage-per-magazine should stay the same. It would just make them more faction-y: you get to throw more lead at the other guy.

That would work too--though TR's already kind of that way (we have one Assault Rifle with 167, one LMG, no SMGs, one Carbine, IIRC). If no one had RoF above 750 the net effect would be similar, except on our LMGs (as no one's at 750 there anyway, and none of ours are above it).

We get 0.75 ads movement multiplier as our average but can go up to 2.0. TR and NC can get 1 weapon per class with 0.75, but never more.

About the topic:
The problem I see in this comparison is that differences in damage do not have the same value as differences in ROF.

I'd like to know where our No Bullet drop is on our snipers, empire tank primaries, Shotgun slugs, esf noseguns...

I don't understand why so many people complain about the TR's weaponry. Personally, I love 'em (though I can't speak to the smg's as I hardly use them). I do wish the TR's 167dmg AR wasn't a burst fire rifle as I can't seem to get the hang of it. Aside from that I don't see a problem with balance at the moment.

I will say that comparing percentages of rof (which vary greatly) versus damage tiers (which are standardized) is really a worthy comparison.

And looking over your post a final time, the Torq definitely doesn't need a buff. That gun is a license to print certs already.

IIRC, the devs once stated that the game engine has problems with weapons firing over 1000rpm, which is why none, or very few exist in the game. It is also why the MCG has such a low RPM and needs a Attachment in order to boost it, and even then I do not believe it exceeds 1000rpm.

Dat suggested Armistice RoF buff.

Although, I wouldn't mind having a single LMG at 143 damage tier with 775ish RoF. It still wouldn't be the same level of nightmare that a couple of 845 ROF Carbines other factions have...that we don't.

... yay.

This isn't about your faction trait. It's about TRs.

Sigh I don't really want to insult you as I understand the point you are trying to make but the method you are trying to use to make that point just doesn't work.

1) You can't just compare the percentage differential for two different statistics especially on two different sets of guns. A % change in RoF does not equal a % change in damage.

2) Every gun has a multitude of other statistics that have to be taken into account, not just damage, rate of fire, and magazine size. Increases in RoF would require balancing the gun as a whole.

3) Guns do not have to have equal or better DPS or damage per magazine or any other specific statistic to be balanced. An empire can have a marginal advantage in some area of play as long as other empires have advantages as well.

I think you have forgotten what the empire benefits really are.

TR

Pros:
Larger mags, about 10-25% larger. Depends on the gun.
Greater RoF, 5-15%, Again depends.

Cons:
Longer reloads, seems to only affect LMGs (only thing they complain about)
Slightly more horizontal recoil. Not sure on the values these days but originally 0.005 extra. Not a whole lot.

NC

Pros:
Extra damage, about 20% as it sets each gun 1 damage tier higher than its VS/TR counterparts
First shot accuracy. Any first round being fired will ALWAYS go on target. Meaning no horizontal recoil affecting it.

Cons:
Larger recoil, depends on the gun. (A lot of this has been buffed over time)
Lower RoF guns. Within their weapon group i.e. Orion/CARV/Gauss Saw so it will vary.

VS

Pros:
No bullet drop.
Maybe by now we can count the heat mechanic? It can always get removed...(better not!)

Cons:
Extra vertical recoil, originally 0.01. Twice what TR gets in horizontal.

Funny how everyone ******* about no bullet drop being the holy god end all benefit when it itself has drawbacks.

Why?
Damage = better effect of headshots, better power at long range, better damage per magazine (sometimes)
RoF = more forgiving... and that's about it.
<More or less irrelevant personal anecdote>I personally love NC weapons compared to their TR equivalents (though I may be biased, given that I'm a sniper at heart). I like hitting harder. If I didn't despise NC ideology and have an outfit on TR, I'd be NC.</anecdote>

Reading the entire thing, you'd see the inclusion of "Adjust bullet damage accordingly". There will be no objective buffs, only improvements (or damages) based on personal preference. DPS and damage per magazine will remain the same.

I'll concede the point about comparing RoF to damage tiers--to an extent. However, the point still stands that NC jumps a minimum of a single tier for their maximum in any given category, whereas TR often jumps an irrelevant 51 RPM or thereabouts. Even adjusting for the difference in category, NC gaining four times more in some categories is insane. I'm not suggesting to nerf the other factions, in which case that point would be more relevant (as dropping one tier would take NC to TR levels).

An alternative would be to cut other factions' RoF (and increase damage). Not preferable, IMO, but if the engine demands it, the effect would be similar.

Not a buff. DPS stays the same, damage-per-magazine stays the same. It simply enhances the TR preference of weapons--spraying relatively wildly, so one missed shot hurts you less, as opposed to NC precision shooting.

So, with that much of an RoF buff, to maintain DPS, you'd have to throw the weapons damage tier into such a worthless, worthless place. Making headshots all but pointless and requiring possibly more than one fire stoppage to mitigate excessive bloom. More Bullets at lower damage is not better than what we have now.

I'm not saying anything about VS--for all you know, I think you guys need a buff too (<off-topic>I do think VS should get more high-tech cool stuff</off-topic>). It's irrelevant here.

So, why does not being in a tier system automatically make TR's values lower? If one gun is 700/143 (hypothetical), why can't the TR have 800/125 or 900/112? Why does the TR have to get 750/143 or so? (Also, NC in one instance goes up two tiers--the Cyclone at 167 to everything else's 125).

Now I'm no mathematician but those % comparisons in the OP don't seem quite right.

I mean, on average VS's spandex is 15.7% tighter than the TR's oppression coefficient of 83% so clearly the scythe should get an afterburner buff of the tightness multiplied by the amount of purple on our armor which is 53.76%

Headshots still double the DPS and recoil drops alongside damage tier IIRC. Making it situationally worse (precision shooting) and situationally better (mobile combat, spray and pray).

In all honesty, I don't especially care if all the factions are equal if they go to the same battlefield. I want each faction to dominate in a certain, achievable, battlefield, so there's the tactical element of attacking the right place in the right way. If you're TR, you won't have a standing firefight and win, but if you rush, dodge around, hit-and-run, you'll win. If you're NC, you won't win a running engagement, but if you can get set and start putting down precise fire, you'll win. If you're VS... whatever (see <off topic>).

I want PS2 to be strategic, not always fair. If I wanted always fair, I'd play a TDM shooter, not an open-world shooter.

<off topic>
VS as of now is... I have no idea.
VS as they should be (cool tech stuff):
If you do a conventional engagement, you lose.
If you optimize engagements to your specific weapons (e.g. get the enemies in a chokepoint with the Lasher), you win.
</off topic>

Too many weapons encroach on TR's high rate of fire
VS also has the faction trait of low reload time
The bottom line is: faction traits are not apparent enough and too many weapons are copypasta