[Vehicle] Why Tomcats are amazing!!!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Aethestis, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. GaBeRock

    Well, yes, strictly speaking. The easy to use option should be strictly worse than the hard to use option. G2A locks shouldn't deal more damage than a dumbfire, a dumbfire shouldn't deal as much damage as the annihilator. The means that all the good pilots use the difficult optionbecause they can use it. And in an ideal, healthy airgame, newbies don't feel the need to use the easy option because they can fly with aces to get better.

    That said, in this specific thread, nobody's saying "don't use lockons" because we know we'll be ignored as long as lockons are stricly better than ab tanks.
    • Up x 1
  2. Inex

    And for A2A right now, they (basically) are. Coyotes have a definite advantage when you're doing the 50m circle, fighting for position - but otherwise the nosegun is a better option as long as you can land the shots. Just keep an eye on the number of people who complain about A2A because it prevents them from winning 2-3v1s.
    And there's a vocal population of Skygods that don't want this either. The "Under the Radar" podcast had the hosts ranting about how new pilots don't get punished enough when they die because the new resource system just lets them buy a new ESF and keep flying. A reddit post from a few days ago complaining about Don Alfredo wiping the air on a continent - exactly the same thing the Skygods used to do. The difference? Don does it with a few dozen "bads" with A2A instead of e-bushido noseguns.

    In a healthy airgame, pilots would realize that taking a defensive bonus against noseguns isn't going to help if your opponent isn't using those. And that's why I support just making the AB a default like the Sunderer's spawn, or Harasser's turbo.
  3. GaBeRock

    I'm not comparing the nosegun to coyotes, I'm comparing AB tanks to coyotes. And AB tanks are strictly worse than coyotes.

    [quote[
    And there's a vocal population of Skygods that don't want this either. The "Under the Radar" podcast had the hosts ranting about how new pilots don't get punished enough when they die because the new resource system just lets them buy a new ESF and keep flying. A reddit post from a few days ago complaining about Don Alfredo wiping the air on a continent - exactly the same thing the Skygods used to do. The difference? Don does it with a few dozen "bads" with A2A instead of e-bushido noseguns.

    In a healthy airgame, pilots would realize that taking a defensive bonus against noseguns isn't going to help if your opponent isn't using those. And that's why I support just making the AB a default like the Sunderer's spawn, or Harasser's turbo.[/quote]


    Enemies always have noseguns in an A2A loadout. Again, I'm comparing AB tanks to lockons. Plus, it makes no sense to make AB tanks default- ESF's already have a default AB, this just buffs A2G loadouts.
    • Up x 1
  4. Saool

    At which point you yourself lost all credibility.
    • Up x 1
  5. z1967

    Rifles are crutches for people who can't use pistols.

    Tomcats and Coyotes add DPS in exchange for maneuverability. If you can't use your maneuverability to outdo their additional DPS then add DPS instead.
    • Up x 2
  6. z1967

    Idk, all I see is an inefficient way of killing aircraft v. an efficient way of killing aircraft. Kinda like trying to take out snipers with a pistol v. a rifle.
  7. Exonis

    I've personally used tomcats for as long as I can remember, since before they were nerfed actually.
    From my experience from using them I've noted that they are a crutch, preventing me from becoming better.
    With over a 188 hours in my ESF, I am still unable to land any viable amount of nosegun shots unless I am using stealth and approaching hovering targets from a straight line.

    (Kind of off-topic)
    This was the idea I came up with:

  8. GaBeRock

    I've seen your stats, you have very little experience in an ESF.

    That's a terrible comparison. It's really more like if MAX's cost 0 resources and could cap points. Tomcats have virtually no downsides compared to running AB tanks, just like running a max would have very few downsides compared to running an HA.
    • Up x 2
  9. Thesweet

    I have read it, and I can say if the pro pilots where any good they would have adapted to the new weapons and used them to their advantage. Because as you said futher up, it isn't about killing, it is about the objective and using whatever tools you have to move enemy away from it. Also, they would know to get up close to negate the tomcats.

    Nose gun shouldn't be better than tomcats, just like nose guns are not better at taking out tanks compared to pots or hornets.
  10. Daemeon

    Your bias and anger are clouding your reason. You have given no reason why choosing a load out does not take skill. I HAVE given reason why it takes skill. You may not like the weapon that blows you up but denying the pilot used a proper skill to choose the right weapon load out is just hubris on your part.

    I suspect I shall get no further actual conversation from you that won't include jibes and/or insults to my skill or ability so I'll just leave this as it is.
  11. Daemeon

    Shushi..... just cuz ya agree with me won't mean I won't try to shoot you down... ok... maybe a LITTLE less :)
  12. Daemeon

    I'm that "last guy" and I never said numbers were more important. They ARE important but skill and load outs are too. I've run against ShushiCW many times. They are GOOD. Very good. What they say is true. I've beaten A2AM users many times by just getting in their face and Coyotes can EASILY be dealt with if you keep your cool as well.
  13. Daemeon

    As I've said before, not your call. Stop trying to use a lack of flying as a reason to prevent people from having a say. We ALL play the game in one way or another (I hope...). Stop talking down to people you deem "unworthy" to speak on the issue.
  14. Ronin Oni

    I honestly DGAF, but why do you have RobesDF in your sig then?

    And considering it's in your sig, that's not really "digging"
  15. Saool

    Next to non in fact. But I was attacking the culture of people calling other weapons and play styles 'cheese' and 'cruches' not something specific to ESFs. You accuse me of not reading and do the same yourself. Then make a baceless attack, meant as an insult, in just the way I am talking about: 'You need this to win'.
  16. Robes

    I have RobesSalvador in my sig?

    Its an image, would have to edit it out, probably should take the 5 minutes but then again what does it matter? I've never had somebody care so much they would even look, much less spend time digging stats and guessing what characters are mine.
  17. ColonelChingles

    I was always under the impression that since... the Vietnam War A2A missiles were the primary weapons of aircraft and noseguns were a secondary weapon.

    Maybe that's why PS2 pilots are so confused... they actually have it backwards. Maybe the correct way to dogfight (as has been since the 1960s) is to hit the enemy with missiles first and then finish them off with the nosegun (if you have to).
  18. GaBeRock

    Have you not seen server smashes? In any format where the pros play to win, it's nonstop lockon spam. The entire reason you don't see experienced pilots using them is because they're ridiculously overpowered, and leaning on aa crutch won't make you better. And if you get close to megate tomcats, you tank a missile and take yourself out of hover, giving your opponent an advantage. Plus, your AB tanks don't provide an advantage since they're not useful for dodging close range.

    And, again I'm not comparing nosegun to tomcats, I'm comparing tomcats to AB tanks. Stop using a strawman.

    Let me teach you about what's known as the "appeal to authority" fallacy. Now, in normal cases had I just said "I have more experience than you, so what I say is true, and your argument is automatically wrong" I would be commiting a fallacy- appealing to an authority (myself) doesn't actually support my argument. However, in a case where something is based on opinion, I am allowed to appeal to an authority, as such an authority would logically have more data and experience to base their opinion on. Here, we're discussing whether or not tomcats are OP, and we have two different viewpoints- yours and mine. Seeing as I have considerably more experience than you in an aircraft, and thus considerably more experience with lockons, I can reasonably say, without incurring a fallacy, that my opinion (lockons are OP) is right, and yours is wrong. If this concerned anything other than exclusively air to air balance, I'd have to share burden of proof with you. Here though, as the authority, my argument stands as the status quo, and you're required to prove it wrong, using something more than opinion.
  19. GaBeRock

    And I've countered your statement by saying that it doesn't take skill to choose a loadout, when it's always obvious exactly what loadout you'd use. If you don't wish to argue with mee, don't, but don't act as if I don't support my statement.
  20. GaBeRock

    Okay. Let's have a realisftic game . first item of business: inner rocketpod splash OHK's infaantry. Second item of business: HE reverted to launch state and gives 1500 m/s bullet speed. Third item of business: every vehicle mounted machinegun does as much damage as a sniper rifle.

    Just because something is "realistic" doesn't make it good game design.