[Video] State of the game, statistics, zergs and farming

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Matti, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Matti

    Hi all!

    I had some thoughts about the game that I wanteed to shar with you guys in this video.
    One of the things is a lack of meta and game modes for scrims (clan wars).

    Farmers legue is about to start soon as well I guess an I'm sure it will be fun for...
    a few BR100 but it seems the game is turning more and more into a pure team death match

    • Up x 9
  2. Alkezo

    While the lack of meta-game doesn't help, I blame more of this mentality on modern gaming culture. With the advent of "pro" players become popular in the form of MLG people strive to do the best in whatever format they deem to reflect personal performance. Due to PS2 being an MMO there's going to be an influx of new players at a somewhat steady rate. This allows the "pro" players to consistently rack up their kills since new players have a hard time determining why they die and how they can improve. Its even worse since those same pro players will just adjust their tactics to beat the new player's own change in tactics as an effort to try to win.

    When it comes to a proper meta-game, how do you balance between "winning having a real meaning" and "winning having no meaning at all"? Do you have more bases that provide more benefits to their owners? This has the side-effect of balancing the battle towards the winning side even more. Is that something players want? What about Alerts? Winning a continent provides a pretty nice bonus, especially to newer players who found their love in vehicles but it seems its not enough for the more experienced crowd. Additionally a lot of people don't like continent locking because it destroys good fights.
    • Up x 7
  3. I play by many names

    The problem is, the only real persistence in the game is your stats. There isn't much else. The territory control sucks. Its shallower than a hillbillies gene pool and they have made very few efforts to add any depth to it. The respawn system caters to rinse and repeat game play in which the larger force wins most fights. There is no tactical or strategic meta. It is a farming game. It is essentially just a free to play BF series game. The larger scale of the game is and has been completely wasted by Sony so far.
    • Up x 9
  4. Andy04

    The game was made for FARMING plain and simple......Being a good player means, you know where to be at the right times at the right bases simple.... Otherwise its just another team death match with no depth what so ever just the constant farm!
    • Up x 9
  5. VonStalin

    You are free to play however you want.
    Nobody is forcing you to farm or play tactical with the team. Do what you want.

    I farm. As a single wolf. I join squads only for additional XP, newer following waypoints or any orders. Thats why I play this game - for action, not tactics.
    • Up x 1
  6. MajiinBuu

    I play a shooting game to shoot stuff. Planetside 2 allows me to shoot anything, anywhere, with few limits on where I can go or what I can do. I don't have to stop playing when a magical timer reaches zero. I don't have to end my game when my virtual character dies. I don't have to do anything, nobody forces you to do anything, you're not obligated to do anything you don't want to do. If I don't feel like fighting anymore I can simply log off and come back later, without hurting my team. If people want to farm than let them. They may or may not be having any fun, but that's up to them.
    • Up x 2
  7. Alan Kalane

    People switch from K/D to KPM? Good. This is a great improvement. I mean, I'd rather get killed dozens of times by some experienced player who plays abusively than to get constantly spawncamped.

    K/D makes people try to avoid getting killed. It creates spawnroom warriors and vehicle spawncampers because these playstyles are very safe.

    KPM makes people play aggressively. Spawncamping or zerging usually means low KPM, as the enemy will either sit in the spawnroom or redeploy somewhere else. You get the best KPM by participating in an even fight or a fight with the odds slightly against your faction and showing some skill. It discourages supportive playstyles,though.

    But the perfect solution would be, of course, to make people focus on their faction. Zerging is not efficient in terms of territory conquest since there are too many soldiers in one place just waiting for the timer to hit 0. Supportive roles are encouraged because by supporting you help your faction. And it creates some sort of unity between players of the same faction, since it's a common goal to make your side win.
    • Up x 4
  8. Matti

    Yeah, winning an alert will at least give some players something to play for but the reward
    might just be locking your own favourite continent. Not really worth fighting for.
    You might get to spawn something cheaper but if you're an infantry player,
    getting cheaper Air vehicles isn't really a big deal
  9. Alzir

    It is about time someone said this Matti, thank you.

    I could write you a massive reply on my own opinion, but not from my phone. Typing this so I don't forget when I get home :)
    • Up x 2
  10. Alkezo

    Yeah, that is one of the problems with continent locking. To be honest they added that feature way too early in the game's life with only 4 continents. Additionally they still haven't added the Battle Islands and continent lattice to support continent locking.

    I play infantry quite a bit and I enjoy the 50% reduction in consumable costs. I frequently C4 tanks and groups of enemy infantry and use plenty of med kits. I don't even use Grenade Bandolier either, which, if I did, I'd love that bonus even more.

    A less realistic approach would be for each base to provide its own benefit, maybe a unique weapon or tool. An outfit can only "own" one base at a time, so when a base is taken the leading platoon's leader is given a choice between switching their ownership to the new base or opt the next outfit to make the same decision, going down until someone takes it. An outfit is allowed one owned base per continent, though maybe one base period to not encourage outfits to constantly switch continents. I consider this unrealistic because, at the very least, each base would require a unique weapon; something that would take forever at the rate of SOE's released weapons.

    I look at EVE, a game that I believe does a lot of things right, and see how territory control is designed. Logistics is required, something PS2 lacks and something PS2 probably wouldn't benefit from. I mean, who wants to haul some auraxium between two empty bases in an FPS, where people want to shoot at things. Perhaps it would encourage people to target enemy caravans but its hard to say. You'd probably have to design a system to allow the enemies to steal the cargo as well. Its possible it could create a stronger meta-game but the developers have a hard time envisioning what the players would do with the new features.
    • Up x 2
  11. WUNDER8AR

    The game has never been more than just a giant deathmatch. It is and always was up to the players to make it more than just that. I mean we have a massive open world, a plethora of fun toys and hundreds of other players to get things going. The thing is everything has been done a gazillion times by now. From organized play in any shape or form to mindless shenanigans. I fear that it has simply become routine, at least as far as the vets are concerned. And what's left is the deathmatch. However SOE was prepared for that, so to keep players interested (and to squeeze some more money out of our walltes of course) we were given directives. Unfortunately directives are mere incentive to farm kills. It didn't add any depth to the game while it should have. And I'm assuming that in addition stattrackers such as Recursion/DA are pushing the DM mentality even further.
    • Up x 3
  12. Lemposs

    I wouldn't said this is a particular isolated nor new problem to PS2. There will always be people that care for nothing else than K/D or KPM, and they aren't so much hurting the game, they aren't stopping others from having fun. Of course it is hard to force them to push a heavily guarded point because that will likely mean their death, but in the end we can't force people to play in a certain way all the time.

    As to zergs, it is a free to play game, and a lot of new people come in every single day to check it out and it can be hard to always know what to do and what not to do. Again we can't force people into organized groups, we can of course encourage them to do so (I did so a couple of months after PS2 launch, where we encourage new people to join in to learn and get some good points for teamplay). And I am always somewhat lacking of words when it comes to zergs, because all factions do it and they usually get stopped at some point and of course it is irritating to be on the receiving end of it, but once again it is hard to control all the people that play the game.

    As for farming, once again, it isn't the biggest issue ever, tanks outside a base still makes it hard for the enemy to pop up where they want without getting fired at. Overpopulation is a *****, but we do have an order system in place, and I often don't see people use it! It is all part of the game. It is why we have outfits, where people who wants to exchange in organized groups can do so.

    I can take myself as an example for all this. I have a character where I pretty much play as effective as possible to take bases and hurt the enemy the most, this is also the character that I play with my outfit on.
    But that can sometimes be a little dull, so I have some other characters to do some shenanigans, I have one where I only use shotguns (NC of course), now this is of course suboptimal, but I still am a soldier on the ground that kill other players and try to take points, so I am part of the machine.
    I have one where I do mostly heavy assault and engineer tankíng and do care little bit about boosting K/D, once again I am still part of the machine that keeps going towards the goal.
    I have one where I am exclusively a medic, still all part of the machine.
    I even have a MAX exclusive character, that one is rather selfish and I am not particularly proud of it.

    But all of them are suboptimal compared to my main character, seeing as I am limiting myself with rules. But I am still part of the game, and I can still push bases and defend bases. Now all people have different goals when they play games, and PS2 is not exclusive to that, some people like MLG, some like being supportive, some like to just chat, and we can't really restrict people to do a certain thing, now I don't think PS2 is dying because it is allowed to play differently but of course it all has a somewhat harming effect.
    But if PS2 where to be so restrictive and force people into a particular meta game, it would lose a lot of people that simply don't like to play in a specific way. PS1 once particular fun for new people that just wanted to fool around, at least in my perspective.

    All in all, outfits exist and to my knowledge still going rather strong, and if people really wanna play the game as it is mostly meant to be played that is where they will go. All the puppies will run along, and still have mostly a good time :)
    • Up x 1
  13. Leeloo

    I appreciate the sentiments on both sides.

    There are basically two types of games and therefore two types of players who enjoy them (or rather vice versa)

    Finite games and Infinite games.

    Finite games end in some sort or another. Either there is a time limit or score limit which decides who wins. Once there is a winner it is recorded in history, that on this day in this event this and that won whis trophy or medal. The scoreboard in our game mimics the Finite game mechanics. On our server LazyTR is the Banshee leader and that is his trophy... until someone surpasses him.

    Infinite games are different. They are more like when you go down to the playground and enjoy yourself doing whatever can be done at that playground with whoever wants to participate. Maybe we play tag, or hide and seek. There is no "winner" at the end of the day, but we still had a great time just playing around. The fact that you can't win in planetside, because bases are captured back and forth or in a circle mimics the infinite game type.

    What I noticed is that those people who enjoy Finite games will prefer to play Finite games and are rarely even try Infinite games. They need the security, that the thing which they won cannot be taken awayu from them. Every kill they make in this game is recorded, tallied and advertised to the world and history. They need this for having a sense of accomplishment or identity.

    Infinite players don't give a fuuk about all this. My K/D ratio is probably two decimals after the zero. I did not even care to look it up. In factr, it would ruind the GAME for me, as any goal in this respect will severely limit what I can or cannot afford to do in any situation. I redeploy by throwing myself on my own grenade. Why? Because it is fun... and fast... and FUN :D

    If I had to watch every step, every move I make because it might screw up my statistics I would never be able to enjoy myself. To explore what else is possible, to goof off, to practice something, to try again and again on the live server to better myself...

    ... because Infinite players enjoy the above. What we get as gratification is that we become better at something and able to do things which we were not able to do before. Nothing else is needed.

    Today I killed 2 heavies and two infiltrators running into them 1on1 within 5 seconds. I was amazed. I AM GETTING GOOD AT THIS!!! That is all the reward I needed. Two months ago when I started I could not kill anyone with anything even by accident. And today I know WHY I am good at this. And that gives me even more joy. I know which things I needed to learn and apply to be able to pull this off. And I did it. And the improvement and exploration never ends.

    The best thing about Planetside is that it accomodates both types of players. In fact, I enjoy the fact, that LazyTR exists, because there is someone I can hone my skills against. The day I can kill him will give me a huge grin. But the way to that day is where all the fun lies.

    Today I played Light Assault for the first time seriously. After I mowed down about a dozen enemies, like in Matti's video I thought to myself... this is too easy... it feels like cheating. Well, I would never ruin a game for myself by cheating, so I don't farm or camp for the sake of it, only for the "meta game" whatever that is at the moment.

    To sum it up, I do not think we can convince Finite players to play Infinite style. I know I cannot be bought to play for statistics. So, let's leave each other at peace, the playground is big enough for both of us to find our fun.
    • Up x 1
  14. Matti

    Thanks for feedback!
  15. Pineapple Pizza!

    The issue is that SoE is trying too hard to cater to solo players, and people who desperately don't want to interact with internet strangers, who are playing an MMO war game, which is constantly advertised as an MMO war game, and is the only currently-developed MMO war game out there.

    Then again, I find that most people really, really don't like mass-vehicle combat. Look at what happens to ESF / liberator combat when there's more than 2, 3, or 4 guys trying to fight eachother; it becomes a cessfest. When the logistics update makes intercepting galaxies and ANTs top outfit priorities, scythe swarms and gigantic tank standoffs will become even more common than they are now.

    I think Higby and friends are worried that giving their game some 'focus' will lose them players; they're absolutely right, but they set out to make a niche game to begin with. Right now, it just feels like Battlefield, with all the noobs running around aimlessly in big fights, never uttering so much as a single word to their "teammates", trying to C4 **** and abuse gimmicks for easy kills.
  16. Leeloo

    My best memories from PS1 were running ANTs solo across the continent armed with a thumper and a decimator. Knowing that you are defenseless made it exhillerating :D
  17. Dis

  18. VonStalin

    • Continents can again be locked by owning at least 94% of the territory, independent of alerts
    this and only this makes me play for my faction tactically. When I see that we got 80% I am all in. Always make sure to have deployed sunder in good tactical position. Always make sure, friendlies know where is enemy sunder. And I am running with c4s towards it. I am capping points instead of farming etc... So, Matti, here is our meta game back. Because this is the only way I can feel that I am actually doing something significant and meaningful. Just imagine, if warpgates could be capturable too.. Converting treesome fights to 1x1... When you could actually conquer the continent like AMP station do..
  19. St NickelStew

    It seems like one thing SOE could do is alter how points and certs are earned. Players tend to do what is rewarded. So why not make more objective-based behavior worth more points, things like base caps and territory control. Make these things worth as much as killing things, and you will likely see a difference in in-game behaviors. Players farm because that is the best way to earn certs.
  20. Dracorean

    What irks me about the players in this game is that typical assumptions are pretty common, that or predictable. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, sure. Though when it comes to game mechanics, it just gives me an odd sense of "What do you mean?" like for example 'zergs'.

    'Zergs' were, are, still a typical thing in planetside 2, given the massive population in the game. There really is nothing 'restricting' it or putting some cap on it. Facilities don't seem to have an importance either other than being a highly defensive area or just give you the ability to spam tanks. When it comes to Zerg, making it difficult to set it up is pretty much an all time goal, problem is that there are many ways to go about it. Zerg play is probably the most pronounced thing that anyone can take notice, though population advantage doesn't always mean a 'win' in some cases.

    Now abusive play styles is a little bit 'harsh' of a word. People do have their ways of playing a game, this inflexibility can come at a price. Like I suck at infantry but vehicles I do well. I throw out that example because that is what I often do in planetside, not because I get tons of kills from it, but because I just like being in a tank and I know I can help defend that sunderer from getting blown up, aid in the defense against an armor push, secure a road to make sure harassers don't come through, suppress a room filled with enemies so my allies can go in and kill em all. When it comes to certain classes like say a 'light assault' the only reason why those guys rack up kills is pretty similar to how the infiltrator with a SMG can acquire kills, people don't always look 'up', people don't always spam recon darts, people don't always throw a grenade in a room to stun enemies 'in' that room. Though 'killing' is a good way to get certs and crap, it really isn't the 'only' way. People do try to focus on the objective more so than just farming, to be honest with you guys I've noticed 'less' farming ever since they pulled the different resources and just pooled them together. Bio labs back then were just as much of a cert harvest back then then they are now. Given that facilities don't really grant 'much' it just leads to the whole 'zerg' dilemma which just gets bigger, and 'redeployside' both valid but both are current meta.

    Farming is something that kinda 'irks' me, but I know when I'm being farmed, there is a difference really. To farm you just need to kill stuff and that's pretty much it. Kill whatever comes out of a spawn, no point in staying in objectives, no point in killing that enemy sunderer, no point in actually being in a fight, you don't have to help your team because they might just get in the way. To be honest I find 'snipers' tend to be more of a subject to this category, that and ESF pilots, course not all people do this. People sometimes just say its about the farm but really farmers don't travel 'too' far from their crops and as such they don't 'do' much else. Getting killed by the same guy is different depending on where he's at but the game has been doing a 'decent' job to try to discourage farmers. Giving more xp to defending, healing, objective play, even getting assists with grenades, its better to actually play the objective than to farm, and this is coming from a guy that slaughters infantry in his lightning.

    Competitiveness element is there, it just needs to be brought up by players. Given how currently the game is mainly 'pointless fighting' with little overall objective (Excluding alerts) play than your just going to get random fights and zergs. Competition comes in many forms and there is that in this game but we haven't really loss much of it, there is just no goal for it, no reason.