[Vehicle] Why Tomcats are amazing!!!

What I want is that maneuverability becomes much more important. Currently everyone uses the reverse maneuver, it's just about the only game in town when you go to ESF fights. The other game is hover fighting... rather than doing chases, jockeying for advantage and finally annihilating someone with a few good hits, or after an exhausting battle in which you whittle away someone's health.
If you try to flee on an area without any obstacles to try and hide behind, you are screwed. You can't outmaneuver someone, the planes aren't maneuverable enough in air vs air battles. You can't suddenly break and use higher agility as an advantage (just makes you a good target), you can't start banking left and right to avoid fire, it just gives your enemy enough time to get close to you. When they do get close you can't really shake them... unless you use hover fighting or the reverse maneuver. There is nothing else.
Even when there is something to hide behind or fly past/through, it rarely helps either. I can do figure eights through a techplant, while flying through every opening, including the old vehicle bay in the middle, the side supports, the length of the techplant... And your enemy will use that window when you fly straight through the opening to fill you with holes and shoot you down. There is barely anything in the game aside from abusing the weirded out air physics to avoid fire.

And now we have found the problem (partially) with the air game... Much unlike you, the "average" pilot is ruthless and seeks to enforce their dominance in the air. I'd love to join you fly boys in your battles, but when I'm skunked in 10 seconds 3 times in a row.... my persistence changes to something far more rewarding.... aka "fun"... than the frustration the "average" pilot inflicts on the new comers.

For this sole reason is why I don't care to honor your fights over territory I fight over ( regardless of faction as i play all 3) and will focus all of my energy to clear the sky. (that and A2G is that one thing I hate most.) But to re-enforce my point, Air and those who participate in it seem to think (on average) that it is a game separated from the rest of PlanetSide 2. For that reason I see no harm in new people (who have the kill or be killed mentality of the ground war) use these dubbed "cheep" tactics to net a kill. It is how the ground game has evolved.

Now that resources are abundant and people are now venturing into your "separated" yet 'connected" game style, don't be surprised that they will turn to the tool that works the fastest for the job that they are able to use without extreme frustration.

But as for your "Aces" using these tactics.... I can't speak for them... perhaps its just for the lulz of the hate tell....

Regarding the "insult" i wasn't talking about you specifically, I've seen that posted before and like i said, its dumb as ****.

Moving on, Were not talking about what random guy #1 or #5 is going, who gives a **** what theyre doing or why its a game they play the way they want, which ties into what I'm saying. I (along with others) prefer to improve as i play, rather than stick with the noobtube which after a point i no longer will.

The later part of what you explained what the skill ceiling they have, did i say there wasn't one? No i said it was low, which you just supported.

There is a skill ceiling and skill floor in everything, Tomcats = low floor low ceiling, Nose gun = High ceiling medium floor (meaning random #3 isn't very good so hes going to have a problem using it because he isn't up to the floor, thats where a lower skill weapon (noobtube) comes in)

I'm not really sure what you are arguing or why you are, all I've said is i prefer to improve as i play rather than stick with a noobtube, i assume you don't so you have to try and force your opinion on me? I don't get it.

well... call me on my call out... but it looks like you are both arguing the same thing.... and both have a problem with skillful players using these "cheep" weapons....

But that's just an outsiders observation....

That really just depends on how you utilize the A2As. Hit targets that are engaging other friendly fighters which really messes up a sky knights day and is guaranteed to give you a hate tell. Hit target high in the sky as well. I like to make sure that my targets cant dodge and if i thought they're not good pilots I'll finish them with A2As. Most people freak out at first lock and crash into coral. Which will also get you a hate tell sometimes. Actually... come to think of it... Im always getting hate tells... Like getting called a hacker, that never gets old and always brings a tear to my eye.

Tomcats are for people who can't lead their nosegun... Its a crutch.

Yep - I hate that happening, but usually i'll be running stealth so I have a moment to scan for you and charge you. If I can break the lock i have a small chance of hitting the deck and seeking cover or I just try and ram you/nosegun you down.

Although to be frank, i do most of my flying low to the ground. Up high in the sky you have no cover, and you're an easy target for flak or gank squads, as well as lockons. I prefer to keep my engagement near the front line but at the same time flank and come from behind the enemy's front line.

TBH, it's been awhile since i've been killed by a Tomcat in a straight fight. I get ganked every so often by three of them coming at me at the same time, but I don't really count that. Since i run fire suppress and stealth i've actually died more to ground lock ons than A2A ones.

Which is a direct insult to me as well. Are you really not seeing that? You really think that calling the things I said "dumb as ****" isn't an insult?

You don't get that noobtubes are a step towards improving yourself? Improving yourself is more than just skill, it's the thought that you can win a battle that helps. If you know you'll lose a battle, you'll do worse than if you think you have a chance, or think you'll definitely win. If you engage some reverse maneuver hover fighter while you always played, you know, normal air combat games, you will never get to beat him. Engaging them over and over with a nosecannon... you won't improve, ever. Because you will never win, never get the satisfaction or that moment where you see how something could go better since you always lose. Tomcats are a way to turn the table. Force someone to do something different. You can improve with them, especially since nosecannons have a higher skill ceiling, and eventually you'll meet someone who can hug your enough and reverse maneuver enough to keep your lock from disengaging, then suddenly you need to use the damage you've done and engage them on their turf again: Nosecannon.
Also, you talk about nosecannons and improving yourself. Are you doing that in every other aspect? Do you play pistols only every now and then? Do you play Lightning HE vs tanks every now and then to improve your skill?
My point is that it's hypocritical. To most people the nosecannon is all there is because "it's the honerable/skillful thing to do". They actively create a culture where using anything else is considered lame, noobish and they actively discourage anyone from using it. But what do they do on the ground? They pick the best weapon available. Orion's, Anchors, MCG's, rocketlauncher OHK's and whatever else you can think off. They use those, rather than improving themselves with just pistols. This isn't just random 1 and random 2, this includes the top people of the game.

Tomcats are great!

...But ONLY for that first opening shot. I've found any aggressive decent pilot will mop the floor with you trying to engage them, at least its been my experience. In gank squads A2A missiles are OP as hell, but you were likely going to die anyway if you were caught out there with your pants down.

I think of nosegun as a smg or shotgun, when you are up close you use it because it is stronger at closer distances. Tomcats are like a rifle or LMG, you use them over longer ranges. People aren't considered as noobs if the use an AR or a rifle.

If players are any good at flying they would come to the conclusion that closing the distance and engage close up is going to work in the nose guns favour.

I'm going to be a contradicting force and say that Tomcats are actually not strong enough yet. SOE needs to buff them even further.

The reasoning is simple. It has nothing to do with air knights and honorable fights and any of those nonsense. It has to do with making a loadout choice matter. The right way to do it is (assuming equal skill between two pilots):

• An ESF with air to ground loadout should be at a distinct disadvantaged against one with a mixed loadout.
• An ESF with mixed loadout should be at a distinct disadvantage against one with a specialised air to air loadout.

SOE moved towards the right direction by introducing the new weapons, but it's not enough. The gap in power must be there and must be at least as strong as the gap that exist in all the ground based units.

not everyone has the time to get enough certs for Fire SUpression 5, and it's the only viable AA option for ESFs in the defense slot

if people constantly bail out and farm their K/D then i will use coyotes or A2A as i please
PS2 is a game of numbers, and if somebody wants to make it harder on themselfes in A2A by not using dedicated A2A weapons, they have no right to cry about it

or would you take someone seriously crying about not being able to beat an AP prowler in an HE vanguard?

I play as TR on Emerald. My opponents are either 4th faction VS or the NC with their PREY air-zerg.

I cannot convey how much satisfaction I get tomcat smashing VS players who I know used to play NC or TR but ran to the EZmode, or NC players who I catch outside of their TS/Vent organized air zergs.

Also LOL at those saying there's a limited skill ceiling for Tomcats. Maybe for tomcatting scrubs, but tomcatting advanced pilots means:

1. Knowing how to position yourself and when to fire to clear an obstacle like a base strut or terrain obstacle.
2. Recognize the distance you should fire on a fleeing AB pilot to ensure you don't need to re-lock before firing again.
3. Recognizing the thrust position of an enemy craft in a duel to determine if its worth it to try to get off a tomcat in close/medium fight.

like playing a Darksouls 2 Santier's Spear Havel Mage?

i've been too focused on auraxing my prowler to play the air game

So...going back to the original post tomcats are awesome because they let you get revenge on a better player that beat you? I guess that's where the philosophical difference come in. Lots of player say the skilled player shouldn't have an advantage, fights should be determined by load outs and coin flips. Other players think practice and skill should make a player more successful at the game.

The devs clearly agree with the first philosophy.

Or was the argument he can't afford fire suppression so he spent thousands of certs buying and upgrading tomcats? I wonder what else he could have spent those on.

I really love it how most people that dislike A2A lockons are the ones who run lolpod/ppa/banshe and bailassault at the first sign of trouble. People who are more likely then not to have truces among themselves even between factions.
A good A2A gank squad is most times the only effective way to clear the skies from the sky-knights constantly farming infantry.
Still, whatever the case, as long as a weapon is effective, not using it is nothing if not stupid.

You have somehow gotten everything completely wrong. Most of the people who hate A2A lockons, such as myself, are A2A fighters. We even recognize that wing mount weapons improve the game's diversity, the problem is the current tomcats and coyotes are overpowered and badly implemented.

Ground farmers will be at a disadvantage vs an A2A ESF wheither it's using coyotes or fuel tanks, and doubly so because most (but certainty not all) ground farmers are lower skill pilots.

In all my time flying while I've talked to and become friends with other factions pilots no one has ever offered or suggested that we stop shooting each other down, I don't know where this myth comes from. I did at one point know a guy who claimed to have lots of truces but they seemed to be more talk than reality.

I shall now, for fun, look up your stats. 4.1% of your points come from an ESF, with only about a third of those being vehicle kills, indicating lots of infantry farming. Sigh. Naturally.

This to a degree,

GOOD pilots will make use of ANY weapon. I mean, I still - STOP, Air Hammer Time - Mozzies and Scythes (and it's so satisfying to do it) and make it work. In fact, i'm using the Vortex simply because I haven't auraxiumed it as the AH is my favourite weapon in the game if I plan to have SOME effectiveness.

People who think "OH IT"S A LOCK ON SO I"LL JUST WIN!" don't know how to react when faced with a determined and skilled pilot. I'll render out an engagement i had a few nights ago where a Mozzie fired three lockons at me and I dodged them all, then took him down with extreme aggression (ramming and nose guns were involved)

It's an overall 'easy' weapon to use, but very hard to use effectively against skilled pilots who are expecting it and requires some degree of similar skill to use against them as well.

A2AM is like giving the Harasser Lock-ons for ground vehicles. Take a good guess how long that would last.