[Guide] Tankers, help me out. Rule Book 4 secondary gunners

Proposed Rules for Secondary Gunners Tanks
I would like to put together a guide for secondary gunners.
The goal is to assist new gunners and have them agree to the following rules/guide lines, before they are allowed in our tanks. Please provide your input.

This is for my TR Prowler, but it applies to all 3 MBT variants.

I will spend 1,000 certs on the secondary gun, and another 1,000 certs on the next secondary, to provide you with two choices. I will spend certs on zoom, ammo and reload speed, to help you get kills.
I will also forgo all the certs I already spent on maximizing proxy radar, (since I was driving solo, up until now), and I will now spend another 1,000 certs on Mine Guard. I am NOT spending all these certs to get some mediocre, can’t hit a barn from the inside, don’t pay attention to nothing, half drunk and don’t give a hoot secondary gunner. When I make the effort to maximize our potential, I expect a secondary gunner to return that effort, so that we both benefit equally.

It is thus your absolute priority and NUMBER 1 job, to PROTECT THE TANK from any and all creepy crawling infantry. You need to have your head on a swivel, at all times.

Here are the proposed rules:
1) If you are not an Engineer, don’t even walk towards my tank. Before I let you in, you will use your repair tool and light up my tank, so I know that you are an Engineer, and you know where and how to find your repair tool. If you are not an Engineer, you will be booted, and I might run you over, because you deserve it.
2) You should have anti tank mines equipped, at least 2 of them. When you see me exit the tank to lay mines, you will lay your mines in the same general area.
3) When you enter the tank, do NOT fire the gun. Some players think they need to fire it to tell me that they are in my tank… duh.. others just can’t keep it in their pants.. either way, if you fire the gun right after you enter my tank, you will be booted, and I might run you over, because you deserve it.
4) When we are near a base, I will NOT get closer to that base, unless other tanks are already there, or Sundys or at least 10+ friendlies are near by. I will never be the only tank or the first tank to attack, or snoop around. If need be, we will sit there and wait for friendlies.
5) You will spam “Q” to IFF (identify friend or foe), all the time. (you earn spotter ribbons and certs).. there should never be anyone or anything moving around, anywhere, that you can see but you haven’t identified it. If you are too lazy to hit “Q”, or you can’t find that key on your keyboard, you will be booted, and I might run you over, because you deserve it.
6) You do NOT shoot at any aircraft that are more than 300 meters away. You will just tell them where we are and then we get blasted, just because you couldn’t keep it in your pants. If you fire at far away aircraft, you will be booted, and I might run you over, because you deserve it.
7) You will look around, constantly, to keep C-4 Fairies off our back. If we ever get blown up because you missed a fairy, it will take a lot of begging on your part before I ever let you gun for me again.
8) If and when we take damage, from anything, do NOT jump out. If you jump out, you will die. Instead, understand this: I will move the tank, try for a better, less exposed position, while you keep firing at whatever is shooting at us. You fire at very close infantry first, if none are an immediate threat, (closer than 50 meters), you will fire on vehicles attacking us. Try to fire on the one that I am shooting at. If you are new to the game, you will learn the pattern of priority, if you are experienced, we should end up firing on the same threat anyway.
9) I am not here for farming, neither are you. When we go after a parked and deployed Sunderer, we fire on the Sunderer, NOT on the players spawning out of it. Unless, there are too many spawning, they shoot rockets at us, they are storming towards us… Then I will turn and drive away, you fire behind us, and in this scenario, try to hit the Sunderer.. The infantry that just came out of that Sundy and is running and shooting us, they are not that fast.. don’t worry about them. Kill the Sunderer, then we will repair, turn around, and then we take care of the infantry.
10) When I stop and jump out for repairs, you will first swivel and look around, to cover me from any infantry.. then you jump out as well and help repair.. I will NOT drive off and abandon you, don’t worry. If I accidentally hit the gas paddle and move the tank 10 meters, don’t get all antsy pantsy.. I will roll backwards towards you , to get you. That also means that you should not run straight towards the tank, ever. Run to its side, otherwise you could get run over, not because you deserved it.
11) If you ever see me exit the tank and run away, try to keep up.

I need more rules.. help me out tankers..

Thx

If you want someone that follows all those rules, then you should probably join a hardcore outfit and find someone that tanks with you all the time. You're demanding far too much from randoms with this, especially with rule 2 and 3. And rule 7 is outright rediculous. You can't see every C4 fairy come in. If it's a guy with drifters 50m above then your gunner can't do anything about him, he's never even going to see him.

I think it's very sad that one of the take-aways from all this is that infantry are by far a greater threat to tanks than other tanks.

While I agree in general with your points, I think you're placing a bit too much responsibility on the secondary gunner and not enough on the primary gunner. I doubt that it's 100% the fault of the secondary gunner if they get C4'd... in fact I would say it's at least a 60-40 split with the driver being more at fault, because the best defense against C4 faeries is to move, and of course the secondary gunner cannot drive the tank.

Primary gunners also have responsibilities towards the secondary gunner. If anything the secondary gunner should be in charge of target selection and prioritization, since they have a much better view of the battlefield and can assess threats better than the primary gunner. The secondary gunner acts more like a tank commander of the crew, and the primary gunner acts like the gunner and driver of the crew. This "feels" weird since in PS2 the primary gunner "owns" the MBT, but really the secondary gunner should be in charge, not the primary gunner.

Made me think of this:

If you were on Emerald I would team kill you... because you deserve it

All in all your list is pretty good though some of it is questionable

I always thought killing the Sundy is the bonus... and killing the infantry is the main objective.. -cough-

12)Learn what weapon does what before getting into my bloody tank , you do not shoot another tank with a Kabolt and you do not shoot Infantry with Halberds unless there is no Vehicles around.

13)If you're out of ammo say so , don't let us go into a fight empty handed.

14)If your gun can't reach the C4 fairy and he's above us , GET OUT AND SHOOT HIM , NOT BAIL ON ME.

15)Try not to get weapon-locked while shooting into a cluster of Fri-e-nemies.

16)Either type fast or own a headphone if you wanna gun for me(Pms or Proxychat).

17)Be +BR30.

All of these rules yet you don't even say you need a mic for even minimal communication?
Whilst I agree some of these rules are okay, some are just nuts. Requiring mines or else? Get outta here. C4 fairy's blows us up and it's my fault? You're more to blame for staying still long enough for them to do it, especially since you certed into proxy radar.

If you play on Miller, I'll play with ya...

.... assuming I'm not sleeping/busy with stuff outside the game.

12) Inform me if you are close to running out of secondary ammo, either by tell or use the voice emote V4. Do not wait till you are completely out.

I love how you make it seem like it's a privilege to gun for you

The gunner's role is pretty simple. You support the driver in every way you can while trying not to get either of you killed.

Most of this is fairly obvious.

Rule 1: Be an Engineer.
Rule 2: Do what the driver says.
Rule 3: Don't draw unwanted attention.
Rule 4: Focus fire.
Rule 5: Give the driver information. (Spot everything and try to watch his blind-spots. Tell him when you're low on ammo.)

Special:

Rule 6: When I say "this is going to be a suicide run" this means we have <50% chance of survival. There's still a chance for an MLG-PRO survival story, but be prepared to jump out and keep fighting. Just don't sit in the tank and die...

I would like to make two changes to your list:

-If you are something else than engineer, welcome into my tank for the short duration it takes me to find someone who is an engineer. Better to have someone manning my secondary than no one.
-I will sometimes take a risk and head to a base first. At the first sign of danger I will assess it and flee or attack accordingly. Being the first to attack isn't a fun job, but someone is going to have to do it. Rather a good 2/2 tank who can pack a punch than some noob who will get them to dig themselves in.

And some additions:
-I will sometimes leave everyone behind and go into a weird direction leading no-where. Stay with me as I'm going to flank someone. If you stick with me you can potentially kill half a dozen tanks from the back before they even know we are there!

My setup:

HEAT
Vulcan
Fire suppresion
Racer chassis
Nanite auto repair

Rule 1) Get in
Rule 2) Kill everything

My rule #1: don't shoot at anything that a) isn't close to/attacking us or b) I'm not shooting at. Don't spoil the Stealth.

Rules of Magrider-
•If you see a Magrider that is 1/2, and you are an Engineer, get in the tank if you're good.
•I will kick you and Commissioner you if you fire without permission.
•I'm running Stealth, don't ******* shoot aircraft or things that are not the main target.
•If you are not an engineer and hop in my tank, expect to be kicked and Commissionered.
•DO NOT BAIL ON ME. I am fully capable of killing the enemy while on fire, and repairing the tank.
•If you are gunning me, and leave because we haven't seen action in a while, you're getting on my KOS list.
•If I see something suspicious, I'm magburning the hell out of there. I don't care if I run you over or not.
•If a friendly tank is blocking our advance or retreat, send a tell telling the driver to move. If the driver doesn't respond, C4 it. It isn't worth it to waste ammo on it.
•Friendlies are just a convenient meat shield unless they have the [DAWN] tag over them. If the pubby lemmings are blocking your retreat or advance, run them over.
•He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day.
•If I yell "BAIL!" in Proxy chat, get out.
•If I yell "REP!" In Proxy chat, get out and repair.
•Target priority is as follows. Infantry(C4, AV turrets, spamrockets, RLs, lockons)>MBT>Harasser>Lightning>Flash>Aircraft>Infiltrators
•He who has the mic, rules the tank. That means me.

I think it'd be easy to summarize a lot of what you are saying as "Treat my tank the same as you would if it were the tank you just pulled with the last of your nanites."

The only rule that I really put emphasis on (and that I kick gunners for) is "don't shoot unless you have a reason to"
- Infantry running towards us is a reason (C4, duh).
- Someone shooting us with rockets is a reason.
- An enemy tank aiming/shooting at us is a reason.
- An enemy ESF doing a bombing run on us is a reason.

- Enemy ESF or Libs at render distance are not a reason to open fire.
- Nor are the tanks that obviously have not spotted us yet, especially if I am currently trying to get behind them.

When in doubt, don't shoot before I do. And if you see me shooting, shoot the same thing.


Everything else I treat more like an optional bonus.
- Be an engie, or at least have the decency to cover me while I repair. Don't use the repair break to go afk FFS.
- Spot things. Especially if I'm in my Magrider.
- Use the ammo voice command or tell me in any other way if you're down to your last few reloads.

As an experienced Tank driver with well over 400 hrs on both Vanguards, Prowlers, and sunderers. i have to disagree with your list.

if you want someone to play the game like you play it, then join an outfit or make some friends and only drive the tank with them. i have never locked my vehicle and i can count only one instance where i had to eject the gunner because he was TKing.

if you want a public tank to fill special roles, then get *that* tank. for example on Hossin i usually run my AP setups with AI guns, so i have another small safety net against C4 and infantry in general. anywhere else its AP/AP. and if my tank gets C4ed, it is ALLWAYS the drivers fault.(something that has happened probably 4 times, and i know on half of those i allowed it to get a kill on a sunderer or other tank)

Being a tank driver is ALL about situational awareness. if im making a dive i KNOW where all the engi towers are, i know where the heavies are, and i know where the lights are. and above all i know the layout of the map and all the obstacles where i can LOS incoming fire. as far as my gunner is concerned, he's free to tunnel vision to his hearts content, preferably on my same target, but its not 100% required.

knowing where the enemy infantry is located, is your responsibility, correctly timing their movement, juking them to get them to burn their jetpack fuel, even intentionally attracting their attention to force engineers to reposition towers on an angle that will give you freedom of movement outside their COF, is YOUR call. screwing it up and getting caught in the open is on you, and you cant expect your gunner to pick up your slack.

yeah, its true that Lights come out of nowhere, and its also True that C4 is probably the most ******** and un-fun mechanic this game has. but if they manage to land C4 on you, its due to your lack of mobility, you cant blame that on the gunner, since hes not the one driving... -.-'

the point i agree on is on fire discipline, Gunners don't have any. at all. i don't even bother to run stealth if i have a random on, some are so trigger happy that they will fire on a Infil running at 300m until i intentionally LOS it to get them to stop.

another problem is gunners exiting the vehicle to repair when i did not. i make it clear to use voice chat to inform when i do repair cycles, and i expect at least lvl5 engi tools. minimum. otherwise stay on the tank and cover.

having non engi gunners is not really that terrible, medic gunners probably yeah... but even infil gunners can be useful, unless they are completely brain dead.

I might be the odd one in that regard, but i actually prefer non-engies as gunners. I run NARS on my magrider so repairing is usually quick and i don't fully repair, so i like to have the gunner guard me when i repair the tank.

Engineers allways hop out to repair too, even more annoyingly they repair it to the last bit which wastes our time (Admittedly they may simply not know i'm running NARS).That leaves the tank and both of us unguarded and vulnerable. But when my non-engi gunner stays inside i have cover and when he is shooting i know i have to hop back in.

This passive aggressive humour of the OP gave me quite a laugh!

Picking up BlueBerries is always a mixed experience :3