[Suggestion] Base turrets too weak?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Linedan, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. Linedan

    Right now, base turrets, particularly the AV ones, are little more than a joke. Or a speedbump, if you're being charitable. Even manned, a supposedly-powerful fixed turret will almost always lose a 1v1 versus an enemy heavy tank. Engineers repairing them are tremendously vulnerable to either splash explosions or snipers. I spend a fair bit of time repairing and using AV turrets and honestly, I use them far more as an anti-infantry weapon, cheesy as it may be, than I do as an anti-armor weapon, because there's no way in hell I'll live long enough to kill a Lightning unless I catch it already wounded and in the flank. Forget killing a Vanguard/Prowler/Magrider. There's no way I can beat them. If I'm lucky, I can make them back around a corner or hill to repair and buy us 30 seconds less of one tank infantry-farming. That's about it. Attackers have no need to even respect AV turrets.

    I'm not sure how to fix the problem, but if I remember right in PS1, turrets were a lot more formidable. They auto-fired when not manned--they were inaccurate but still capable of hitting a careless attacker and doing some damage. There were a lot more of them around a base. And if I recall, they were a hell of a lot tougher comparatively than our AV turrets in PS2.

    Auto-firing probably isn't a good solution, but I wouldn't mind seeing turret hit points vastly buffed, at least double from where they are now. Damage-wise, I'm not sure, maybe a significant boost against armor but no change or a lessening of splash damage against infantry (then again, I think you have to score a direct hit right now to one-shot a squishy). They just need something. A tower or base bristling with turrets really should be a formidable obstacle that requires combined arms to overcome, not just a few hundred free points for a couple of Magriders. Right? Or not?
    • Up x 1
  2. Vaphell

    yes, turrets suck, all of them
    AV turrets are no-sway instagib-on-bodyshot sniper rifles but against mech are meh at best. Tanks solo them with ease, they get gibbed in 5 seconds tops. Even ambushes from the back are rarely successful because their RoF and angles are so poor one can just drive out of bounds or find a rock to cut LoS and repair to full.
    AA turrets are ok-ish against ESFs but libs and galaxies laugh in their face, don't ever bother.
    AI turrets suck against I, but surprisingly enough they are ripping the vehicles a new one.

    It's a mess. Given how hard they are to reach under pressure (amp station anyone?), how long their average lifespan is, how hard they are to repair from 0 under pressure and how weak they are against their supposed targets, they are currently a waste of CPU and polygons. I don't care they are 'free' and skillmobiles are not, stationary defenses have one job and should be tough as nails because they don't get the benefit of mobility.
    • Up x 5
  3. lesserbob

    For my part I find base turrets about right for damage output. I think there pretty good at what there meant to do. That said, on the whole I agree with you, they are weak overall.

    Why? First thing we here when approach a base "Right oh boys, take those turrent offline" and we do, easily. Turrets are potent damage output, but their immobility makes them sitting ducks. You can hit them with whatever you like with relative ease and they dont have the HP to stand up. Within the first couple of minutes of any attack the turrets are already gone.

    I cant imagine how to solve. As op said, engineers trying to rep them are dead men, so that doesnt help.

    About the only ones that really are scary are the ones the the top of tech plants, and thats because they are so high up, often beyond the elevation of a tank gun and hard(er) to judge with dumb fires.

    Maybe thats it, make the angles awkward for attackers....
    • Up x 1
  4. Ranik

    As someone who fights turrets and uses them. I think that they are about balanced but the repairing engineer could use a bit more cover. It's way too exposed at the moment and is a bullet magnet.
  5. Sulsa

    Anybody remember the turrets around December 2012? They were the equivalent of the stock Lightning gun. THAT was pathetic... They are monsters compared to what they were but IMO an MBT trading shot for shot with a turret should lose. The MBT should need to utilize it's mobility and cover and (shocker!) TEAMWORK.
    • Up x 4
  6. Maelthra

    Oh yes, the PS1 turrets were truly formidable. You could drive right up to them and they'd be stuck shooting at the platform they were on ;)
  7. FateJH

    The big issue I have is being sniper shot through the body of the turret because it does not load consistently. I consider it a Vehicle as far as the game is concerned and it should load like one for everybody.

    Personally, I don't think you should be able to fight a manned turret off head-on with ease. You should need to attack it from the side, top, or back. My previous suggestion was to give it the equivalent forward-facing shield of a Engineer MANA turret when it is manned; when it is unmanned, the shield goes down and the whole of turret is exposed to damage; but, I am currently wondering whether that is overkill. It still seems desireable but my concern is establishing a fun interplay between the turret and its target.

    It's current repair model is good. A maxxed Repair Tool taking an average of two passes sounds fine and anything else requiring three or four is good.
    • Up x 1
  8. Goden

    They need more armor, faster repair times, and longer hack times.

    They spend most of their time either dead or hacked. Usually hacked because one guy can run around and hack an entire bases turrets in just a few minutes.
  9. Ranik

    Fate you have to understand "It still seems desireable but my concern is establishing a fun interplay between the turret and its target" basically excludes your suggestion as an option. Because you must remember. As the vehicle is engaging the turret. It is also being engaged by everything next to you on the wall. Making the turrets super tanky would really really not be fun for vehicles while they are already dodging AV spam.

    Agreed on the hack times. No to repair times if the back of the turret gets some actual freaking cover for engineers.
  10. Silkensmooth

    If you could cert into turrets.

    If they cost resources to use.

    If they stayed dead when destroyed.

    Then they should have a chance against an MBT that requires all of those things in abundance.

    Oh and they should give the same XP as a vehicle since they are as tough
  11. Pineapple Pizza!

    Walls and towers need to be redesigned so that the turrets can be lowered into the fortifications when not in use. It would also help if you could lower the wreckage of a destroyed turret for repairs; even when spam can't reach me, I can never get a dead turret back up during a defense since enemies can see it glowing and blast it back down to 0%.
    • Up x 1
  12. Ranik

    That's a fairly good idea if compromised. Make it so it isn't entirely covered while inactive / destroyed but it is a bit more covered than when active. Basically yeah, just give it a bit more cover when dead/inactive but not so much that it's unhittable.
    • Up x 1
  13. Mekeji

    That seems like a good idea.

    It will also make a base feel a bit more dynamic than just a static building with only thing moving being people.
  14. Alarox

    AV turrets do not suck. They have AP DPS, have zero recoil, and have HEAT levels of splash. They're as durable as a MBT. They can also be infinitely repaired.

    They're not supposed to BE your defense, they're meant to supplement it.
    • Up x 1
  15. VALCHKYRIE

    these turrets are good as they are, no need to buff them imho...

    if you're in a AV turret: you'll loose an 1v1 against a tanker (even if he doesn't have a gunner i think) but that's NORMAL because these turrets are not made to defend bases alone! they are made to help the defenders to take down enemy vehicles! you put 1 AV turret and a HE with his RL, the tank must runaway otherwise he's gonna die...

    it's the same for AA ones, yes you will loose against a lib, but he has to get pretty close if he wants to take you down, an HA with RL, he's to run...
    • Up x 1
  16. Thefailknight

    Honestly I had an idea a while ago of allowing engineers to have a certable ability that would take the spot of THEIR turrets that would buff base turrets that they were in. More armor (Or a decently strong shield.) Repairing slowly while in it. (Not near a maxed tool speed, SLOW.) Lower heat per shot possibly. And an accuracy increase for the AA guns. I figure turrets should be feared when manned, not laughed at. As it stands unless the tank is absolutely inept they can't lose. That's kinda stupid.And a lib? lolno. It'd take about 6 turrets to pose any real threat to one.

    Course this was initially an idea on how to handle AV engi turrets. Namely have this replace them. But it'd work as a stand alone ability.
  17. hansgrosse

    I find turrets to be pretty effective actually, but even disregarding my opinion of them, I think you're forgetting that there are generally many such emplacements facing in the same direction on any given side of a facility base, and often even large outposts often feature turrets with overlapping fields of fire; when people actually bother to use them in conjunction instead of one at a time they can do great things. One manned AV turret is enough to tangle with a Lightning; several coordinated AV turrets can tangle with a fair-size armor column at (almost) any range. One AA turret is generally enough to scare away an ESF; 3 or 4 AA turrets are enough to make a Lib think twice, and an entire Amp Station's worth of AA turrets will clear the local skies. AI turrets provide surprisingly effective suppressing fire, and in pairs can be a serious threat to light and medium vehicles.

    Basically, I think the real problem is that you're expecting them to be outstanding platforms on their own when they were very likely meant to be used in conjunction with one another instead.

    /2¢
    • Up x 1
  18. lothbrook

    If anything they're too strong, as something that can be repaired infinitely and never truly destroyed and completely free, you don't want to engage one if it already is shooting at you before you shoot back, and thats coming from a VG driver, sure i'll win the fight but at pretty great cost and for almost no reward when the guy hops out before it blows up and just starts repairing it. Engaging one with anything other than AP is also suicide.
  19. FateJH

    That might be an anecdote that they're working as intended. I am not throwing that phrase around haphazardly or sarcastically either. At the very core of its functionality, what is the base turret intended to accomplish other than destroy the inattentive vehicle that drew too close, or scare off the attentative vehicle who could defeat the turret but at a significasnt health cost, while the base's defenses were ready and capable of being manned? what other purpose would the AV variant server if it could not present a competent AV threat? You have already stated you are/feel capable of taking it down in a direct slugfest.
  20. libbmaster

    It's frustrating, but it's necessary.

    They are meant to supplement defenders, not replace them.