can anyone explain the current lib hate to me?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hartkernharald, May 5, 2014.

  1. Flag

    Yet the ESF-Lib interaction is one of the few places where things are close to "right".
    If you're going after balance issues there are many worse offenders than this.

    Because .... It would make a notable advantage into a big one? As it stands it's one of the saving graces for the great Lib crews against ESFs. The threat of it changes how ESFs will engage, in particular it makes the engagements last for longer, giving the Lib a better chance of landing that illusive dalton, flee or otherwise out-play the ESF. However, through all of this the ESF is the one that can play to lose, and for the lib it's to play to win.

    Remove the ability to dalton (or shred) things that's not strictly speaking 'below you' removes this risk and ESFs can be more bold without being as easily punished (not that daltoning ESFs is ever easy). You can argue that the difference is minor, and it "is", but that's what's so great about it. When something minor has such a "huge" impact, if only a perceived one chances are the situation is more or less done right. You obviously don't agree with me in that it's fine, but if you go by the opinions of people that know their air I think you'll find the majority would agree with me here.
    Which is another way of saying that you're in the minority as far as your opinion goes.
    (doesn't automatically mean you're wrong, but it makes it more likely that you are)

    Look at what the other people here said to you about this.
    ESFs killing a Lib is boring to watch, mundane even.
    It takes time, and there's no moment of "whoa!" as when the dalton shell hits the ESF.
    That's why you're unlikely to find much.


    By the way, if you're just going to keep up this debate knowing that it comes down to a point we flat out disagree on, I'm going to say you're wasting your time trying to convince me otherwise.
    • Up x 1
  2. Mxiter

    How do you think tank crew feels about lib?
    Why should it be different for libs?
    Why libs should be infantry and tanks hard counter but ESF couldn't be libs hard counter?

    Because it's hard to TB+hovering over a defenseless or even a walker/ranger MBT?
  3. Flag

    I've never said that.
    However that comment was made on the Liberator - ESF situation.
    -Not- at how either craft performs towards other parts of the game.

    Use the comment in the proper context, or don't use it at all.
  4. Mxiter

    I just keep in on the same way:

    It's veary easy to destroy a tank with libby since it's tanks counter.
    It must be very easy to a single ESF to destroy a lib since it's libs counter no matter the skill nor the lib loadout wich in the first was shouldn't had access to AA tails gun (and maybe tails gun totally).

    TB: best damagin weapons of the gaime against all threats.
    Dalton/Shredder: second best damaging weapons of the game.
    It looks enouth for a dedicated heavily armored A2G bomber.

    And by anticipation of all those lib defender that will come to ask "but how libs will stand a chance against ESFs"

    I tell them what they says to MBT driver: teamplay.
  5. Flag

    Here's where you're partially wrong:
    - It's easy to kill an MBT with a Lib, which should change.
    - It's not easy for an ESF to kill a Lib (although the ESF has the inherent advantage), and that's how it should be.

    From your post it seems you want them to be hard counters, which I disagree with.
    My point, however was that the lib-esf situation is fine, not that the rest of the game is fine.
    • Up x 1
  6. TheBlazing


    Yep, we definitely disagree. And yep, there are other issues that need to be tackled. Such as the complete lack of an in-depth tutorial over a year from release, or the almost complete lack of progression. I just hope that the devs tackle those huge issues first, along with making the game more immersive which is something else that PS2 miserably fails at.

    I guess I'll try to be extra-careful when engaging Libs... or just pull out my Lancer.

    Whatever happens and however the game will go on, I hope that it will end up being fun and balanced for everyone. As I think you can probably guess by now, I'm quite a big advocate of strict rules and well-defined roles, but hey, if the devs whant to tackle issues in another way, I'm cool with it. As I said, what really matters is that the game is good.

    :)
  7. Flag

    So you're VS? Then what are you complaining about?!
    You have the Saron nose gun, the premiere anti-liberator weapon!
    (I say 'you' rather than 'we' because I'm not playing PS2 these days)
  8. z1967

    42 times better than akimbo weapons. Make it happen to all vehicles and we have a done deal (Harasser land skiing anybody?).
  9. The thinker


    I am sorry i just had come from losing my ESF 3 times in a row to a lib one that had also killed 4 of my friends that i play with so of course i was a little angry

    but did i completely say get rid of the lib did i act like some of the morons out here who claim that every thing that kills them should disappear no i made a slightly angry post

    and yes i have use the air hammer nose gun against a lib it did nothing it almost seemed like he laughed and shot me down You have to upgrade it with so many certs for it to even be remotely effective against anything else it is stupid

    not all of us sit on 100,000 certs or have the money to pay for that kind of stuff i

    do admit that my earlier post was over board but does that mean i am an idiot no it doesn't it means i am mad because i can't seem to kill something even when i have 6 people shooting it

    and besides i am done with this it is stupid just accept the lib hate it will keep happening no matter what just like the hate towards heaves and everything else under the sun
  10. Flag

    The AH is a gimmick. Use it at your own peril.

    The default guns are the anti-lib ones, and with patience you can kill the Lib.
    Not saying it will be easy or risk-free, but the ESF is the one that determines the engagement.
  11. PWGuy93

    Their resistance to damage is set high, their ability to damage is set high unlike any vehicle in the game.

    When I exchanged comments with a Lib flyer his statement spoke for everyone who asks your question, "you want to counter, get in an join three ESFs to take us down."

    Manning a base turret and engaging a Lib - only deters
    Manning a skyguard and engaging a lib - rarely deters
    Grabbing a Heavy or Max and engaging a lib - you die
    You need all three working together to take out one flying vehicle...
    This is where the hate comes from.

    If the side you're playing doesn't have a complete team to take on one single Lib, you die.

    It's all good when it's a zerg and both sides have near equal numbers. The problem, the "hate" - from me - is that the game is suffering population balance issues and the Lib exacerbates the problem giving the side with a few extra players and overwhelming advantage.
  12. dstock

    I would give anything to have a tow-rope for MAXs on my Harasser.

    The AH and the Saron are the best anti-Lib nose guns, they just have totally different playstyles.
    • Up x 1
  13. Flag

    True, but using the AH means giving up one of the main advantages you have over the Lib - Range control.
  14. dstock

    I agree, it just takes a different style. Instead of floating at range and misleading Dalton rounds, you play really close and force them to maneuver continuously to keep an angle. Which, ... they can't, because ESFs are still more nimble/have better acceleration than Libs. I dunno, playing default nose at long range is safe and successful, but I don't find it fun. Dancing all over a Lib's backside with V-Thrust and AB spanking them with an Air-Hammer, that I find entertaining. My post doesn't really have a point, besides that I hate the Mosquito and don't like any of the nose options for fighting Libs. When I play TR, I usually try to use Hornet Missiles against Libs, lol.

    It's all for laughs, there won't be anyone playing Libs again in 4-6 months.
  15. Flag

    If you want to spite the lib, go with the tomcats.
    Few things are more frustrating than a good pilot with those things.
  16. Hoki

    They have considerably too much HP, and their weapons are too effective against their counters.

    Theres just no way to rationalize how much uptime is required by flak, nosegun, cannon, walker, or basilisk.

    Meanwhile both the required uptime by tankbuster or bellygun against ESF/turret/lightning/mbt/sunderer is muuuuch lower.

    Or does somebody want to argue against these facts? I'm really not interested in the 'crymore' distractions.

    It would be different maybe if the weapons were to be made more challenging to use, maybe. That would be a place to start.
    • Up x 1
  17. Silus

    Personally I hate the current Libs not for their power, but for what they've done to the game.

    Libs get buffed, that means more ESFs get pulled to deal with them.
    Excess ESFs get pulled, air becomes saturated, A2A combat bleeds onto the ground causing problems for infantry and armor.
    As a result, people pull more AA.
    With the recent change for Lightnings (Pull them anywhere) people are pulling more Skyguards.
    When working in groups, Skyguards decimate aircraft in damn near every direction.
    Flyboys start complaining at people pulling counters to the saturated air situation.
    Cries of "Nerf the Skyguard" abound.

    As a dedicated Skyguard, I am opposed to nerfing or changing the already usable and stable AA cannon.
  18. Dreadnaut

    This is a learn to play issue. I'm sorry I'm just calling a spade a spade here.

    A single Reaver with an Air Hammer will obliterate an Air hammer in 3 clips or less.

    I don't think you're an idiot, I think you're uninformed and need to get better at the game and you will see how right the rest of us are when we talk about things we deal with every day in the game and are very familiar with. I know EXACTLY how hard an Air Hammer hits from the pilots seat of a Liberator. It's OP as hell and it isn't fun.
    • Up x 1
  19. Dreadnaut

    No good pilot is complaining about this change to being able to pull Lightnings everywhere. Just the baddies complain.
    • Up x 2
  20. Brahma2


    Ain't new on Connery. People pulled just as many ESFs before. The meta is now air groups.
    • Up x 1