Why do aircraft get to be anti-everything?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Thpthpthp, May 19, 2014.

  1. RaTzo

    Perhaps because the only weapon in the game which isn't effective against aircraft is the knife.
    • Up x 1
  2. Sagabyte

    Why do aircraft Liberators get to be anti-everything?
    • Up x 11
  3. nubery


    ESF can't be effective at AA and A2G at the same time. Choices have sacrifices.

    Coyotes for A2A, Breakers for A2G. Breakers suck at A2A unless you're shooting a large target and Coyotes do nothing to ground. What are you on about exactly? Nose guns?
  4. Schwak

    Uh....no they don't?.....
  5. FaLI3N

    Refers you to the AP lightning that cannot one-shot an ESF and takes 4-5 shots to take out a liberator. Anti-armor means nothing unless you are in the sky in which case your anti-armor are anti-everything.

    It is time to make all air specialize because it is beyond ridiculous atm. ESF need rocketpods to be AI and hornets to be AV, their noseguns need to be unable to hurt armor, with the kestrel etc changed from "newbie friendly" :rolleyes: to the anti-armor nosegun (with lower ammo capacity and slower fire-rate).

    Libs just need to go away. Their entire current implementation is broken. Make them bombers.
    • Up x 3
  6. lothbrook

    What? Nosegun/Rocket pods is extremely effective against Air and Ground, you just have to learn how to use the nose gun instead of relying on lock ons, lol.

    What people are talking about with aircraft is when a tank decides on a loadout hes left extremely vulnerable to something, AA loadout completely ****** against anything on the ground while only being somewhat effective against ESFs because AA options suck, Multi-role loadout completely ****** against AV vehicles, AV loadout completely ****** against infantry, and AI loadouts are completely ****** against everything because they suck balls. None of these loadouts will do **** against a lib.


    Meanwhile with a nosegun/rocket pods loadout on an ESF you can kill vehicles, infantry, and Aircraft all with extreme efficiency, in fact this is the best A2G loadout for ESFs, the only thing that has an advantage against you is someone who is Equally as good with AB pods, as anyone who is good with the nose gun will destroy someone using A2A secondaries.

    Then of course theres the lib, i can hop in one solo and kill anything in the game, the only threat is extremely skilled ESFs, hell you'll kill other libs that are fully manned because they try get you with their belly/tail gun instead of the tank buster which is far more effective.
  7. Gleerok


    They do, there is data proving that. In all honesty I'm tired of digging those figures every single time you Libbers come with that. The 3 faction Daltons summed up kills results in ESFs being first in the kill board.
    • Up x 3
  8. Gleerok


    Sounds like "someone" needs a nerf somewhere then,.....
    • Up x 2
  9. Haquim

    Not counting trees and suicide, which are number 1 and 2 respectively....
    • Up x 2
  10. Gleerok


    I understand the devs at some point. People complained that the Lib was underpowered. OK, it needed fixing, and now it is relevant versus ground, the small tweaks did help. Libs needed that, thats a fact.

    The issue with Libs now is that it is too effective in every area, specially versus air where it shouldn't be that effective. But then we have a strong Lib crew lobby always squeezing from one side while less radical players that bring up the whole "balance nerf" thing from the other side. But those less radical players lost credibility because we were the same ones that promoted the Lib buffs.

    Now devs are sick of messing with aircraft, probably.

    Yet, either way, SOE needs to consider that balancing is not a one time thing. You don't (in most cases) get something right on the first try. You'll never please everyone either, but you can please most, and here we CLEARLY see that MOST are saying Libs are being too effective in a field they shouldn't be.

    If a nerf happens on Lib A versus A capabilities, this small niche player community will freak out, on the other hand this MUCH BIGGER community that is claiming a A2A balance on Libs will be pleased. This bigger community is composed of:

    All tier pilots (from starter to advanced) with a mixed up positioning from higher tier pilots because some are also Lib pilots.

    While the other side only has the few players that insist in turning the Lib into a pseudo-dogfighter, messing with ESFs field of play and shifting balance to a very wrong side.

    If nothing, a new aircraft should be made, one that is almost (to less) as heavy and clunky as the Liberator but is 2-seat based (2 crew members) and focused in A2A.

    You can't simply have an aircraft that excels both in A2A and G2A, that goes against all the ESF versatility nerfs and pretty much all versatility nerfs already pushed in the game, its not just.
    • Up x 2
  11. Gleerok


    Dalton KILLS

    and not ESF DEATHS

    Dalton kills means: What kind of stuff daltons kill

    ESF deaths means: What ESF die by.

    ESF die by more stuff than Dalton, but Dalton kills MORE ESFs than they kill any other kind of target

    Daltons can not DIE, because its an weapon.

    Please, interpretation, please.

    (I would like to ask you to not judge my english, this whole thing is kind of confusing to formulate, and english is not my first language. If you didn't get what I said, I will perhaps reformulate.)
    • Up x 5
  12. Tcsisek

    Libs either need a lot less damage, (but that would make them useless), a nerf for there armor, or a little nerf to both, (this is what I would do) but esfs are fine.
  13. Flag

    Show the source if you're going to be so adamant about it.
  14. Alarox


    Liberator Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lE&usp=sharing

    Galaxy Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...kE&usp=sharing

    Harasser Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...nc&usp=sharing

    Flash Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&usp=sharing

    Sunderer Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2c&usp=sharing

    Lightning Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2c&usp=sharing

    MBT Deaths
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wc&usp=sharing

    ESF Deaths:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...Wc&usp=sharing

    -----------------------------

    Yes, yes they do.

    Here's the source. Compare Dalton deaths for each of these vehicles, ESFs are the highest numerically. These numbers are fairly reliable, although with the recent Liberator buffs they might kill other vehicles more often than when this data was collected.
    • Up x 4
  15. Flag

    Uh, what?

    The dalton doesn't even break into top 10 cause of death for ESFs as a whole.
    Based on https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...cHJlWkJXYy13WVROc2s2TTNjOWc&usp=sharing#gid=0

    Which can be a flimsy data set, but whatever.
    • Up x 1
  16. Slandebande

    Neither the Lightning AP/HEAT, nor the Prowler AP/HEAT/HE or Magrider HEAT/HE 1-shot ESFs, unless they have taken damage. I've tried countless times with those specific weapons for an ESF to get a single hit, use Fire Supp, and be well on their way out of the combat zone. Sometimes they also die to that hit, but usually the pilots dying to such hits are the ones podding while being hit by other AA (like Flak). I agree that is has helped that ESFs have been given options to specialize, but I still don't think we are quite there yet (tanks aren't either for that matter, but that's just my opinion).

    I agree on the part about Libs not being specialized, and not having many natural predators in most cases.
  17. Jeralamo

    so 900 resources for your 350? (3 skyguards)
    Or mix in a MAX which cost 315 each.

    Also if there is hills or mountains the liberator survives 3 skyguards. Liberator just changes his angle of attack each time and tank busters a vehicle and the belly gun finishes it off as the lib fly over the mountain for cover and repairs. But maybe it was a unique situation. Our skyguards were at Hvar south. Anyways 3 skyguards still need a good several second to kill a lib.
    • Up x 2
  18. MarkAntony

    Learn to actually hit infantry instead of easymode spamming buildings with HE. You now have an effective AI tank.
    Learn to hit Aircraft with main cannon. You now have an (semi-)effective AA Tank.

    There you go. you can fight everything.

    I am happy you didn't even bother asking me how infantry could be anti everything. Because that question would have been ridiculous.
  19. Botji

    I think this is pretty simple actually...

    Everyone can agree that the ESF should be what counters Libs, right?

    Then we think about the options we currently have, I can:

    1. Use a ESF and have to fly like a boss(or a chicken) and completely outplay 2-3 people in a fight that can easily last for over a minute or just a few seconds if they get a lucky shot meaning I died.

    2. Use a solo Lib and have to fly a little sneaky to avoid them spotting me too quickly and then fire ~1 mag of the TB. If I did the "hard" part right and just went around them instead of head on, the fight is often over in less than 5 seconds and they might not even have had the chance to fire a single shot at me.

    Clearly option #1 isnt what you should use if you want a Liberator dead.



    I use the Lib fairly often, most of the time I fly and gun solo and the only times I die to a single ESF is one or more of the following is true, they are really really good, they find me already "dying", I want to play with the Dalton/Bulldog.

    Any other death to ESF involves the same as above but they come in numbers.
    I posted something similar to this in another thread but for me 1 ESF is a potential target for me, 2 ESF means I keep my eyes on them(depending on what they are doing I might go in and try to take one out fast so its just 1 left, meaning its a target), 3 ESF ... then I start to look for friendly air/AA assets and if I dont think there are enough around, I go someplace else.

    ^ my thoughts when flying a solo Lib. 1 ESF doesnt scare me at all, 2 im a bit wary of but still possible targets. Only 3 and above usually means im in danger. Its kinda like how AA is against most aircraft.
    • Up x 1
  20. Ganjis

    Saved me typing it.

    Just because the Dalton kills more ESF than anything else, does not mean that ESF die to Dalton more than anything else.
    No source is required to point out a logical fallacy.