I got shot out of the air with a bulldog lib that was chasing me.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Hoki, May 16, 2014.

  1. Hoki

    I thought mossies were supposed to be fast :D

    Anyways, a charming experience with a lib tonight where I was trying to run away from it, and it somehow kept pace with me, peppering me with tankbuster for a good 2 minutes, then finished off by a bulldog while flying in front of the lib, not gaining any ground on it.

    I guess theres just a lot of racer libs now cause they're so used to ESFs running away.

    Great idea you had in letting the tailgunner shoot straight forward SOE.

    [IMG]
  2. Verviedi

    That's nothing compared to getting chased across an entire continent by a lib and getting tankbusted.
  3. MajiinBuu

    Use racer, quit hovering
    • Up x 2
  4. Alarox

    The quickest ESF has to use racer in order to outrun a Liberator?
    • Up x 9
  5. Silvermyst

    I've always believed that the slowest set up for the slowest ESF should be at lest 10 kph faster than the fastest set up for a lib. 30-50 kph faster would be a lot better though.

    From a game-play perspective if an ESF tries running from a lib it can't shoot back while the lib peppers it, and ESF's have low armour, so their speed should contribute to their survivability. It doesn't now.

    Libs on the other hand, while running from an ESF can shoot back via not only their rear gunner, but their belly gunner as well :rolleyes:. On top of that they have more armour and HP than an ESF This means that they should be relying on their firepower to survive vs attacking ESFs, and so speed shouldn't be needed in those situations.

    Now libs also need speed for their survivability vs ground targets, so I wouldn't nerf their speed, instead I think giving all ESFs a speed buff would be better. It'd help their survivability, but I don't think it'd be all that useful in most combat situations as the faster you go the harder it is to hit things. (especially when farming peasants)

    I've been thinking this for ages, but it hasn't happened yet.
    • Up x 4
  6. Simferion

    • Up x 1
  7. Silvermyst

    Not sure if this was aimed at me, but either way here's some more data.


    With that same spreadsheet dogfighting puts them at:
    Reaver 214 Kph
    Scythe 224 Kph
    Mossie 242 Kph

    And according to this old thread (have no idea how accurate it is) liberators can hit 221 with only racer 2. So:
    Libs 221+ Kph

    As such, without going and doing some tests for myself or finding a more reliable source I think ESF and/or Liberator speeds need to be adjusted a bit.

    As a side note I think that pressing ascend while going forward should either give you no bonus, or even slow you down a little. Giving you a speed boost which can be as big as 30 kph faster is ridiculous.
    • Up x 2
  8. Simferion


    Definitely not aimed at you. I was still typing while you were posting.
    Anyway I agree the conclusion is liberator is too fast for its role and compared to ESF.

    Yes, the ESFs have the AB but if you wanna turn and fight you have to slow down anyway so the liberator can shorten the distance.
    • Up x 1
  9. PKfire


    a racer Lib, yes






    there aren't
    • Up x 2
  10. ronjahn

    The forward facing rear gun seems a bit unnecessary IMO. I know prior to the change, that rear gun was pretty useless, but I think they went to far.

    as a MBT driver it has been frustrating to constantly take both dalton and bulldog rounds at the same time, where in the past the pilot would have to fly past you to get both guns on target. It increases TTK against ground targets dramatically..
  11. Mongychops

    I have Racer 3/3 certed, and while it is fun for giggles, your manouvreability is total poop.

    Maybe a Racer / afterburner Lib will be able to catch up with you, but if he can keep you in his sights, that's your problem.
    • Up x 1
  12. Flashtirade

    Wait a minute, if the Lib is chasing you, how does the tail-mounted Bulldog get a shot on you? Unless there's a significant altitude advantage, I just can't picture it. And no, the tailgun cannot shoot straight forward.
  13. Frosty The Pyro

    while you are correct that it cant fire strait forward, it DOES have a pretty good forward angle, you wouldn't need much altitude advantage, just tilt your nose up a bit (while reloading the tank buster).
  14. Dead soldier

    he probably was doing "evasive Manuevers" and forgot he had afterburners or was a fighting a lib with racer.

    I still don't get how he got hit the with the bulldog though because the lead on that is insane, he had to have been flying directly under it or not gone straight away but instead did massive turns trying to not get hit.

    So how did you let the lib get that close to you in the first place?
    • Up x 2
  15. Hoki

    Was getting tagged with tankbuster, so yes not flying completely straight, so the whole 250 theoretical speed thing didn't really come into play.

    I was dogfighter 3 btw, cause I thought that would be the best for fighting other ESFs when I first started playing. Now I know better, fly backwards with hover 3, but never got around to spending the certs. I'm hover 2 now, we'll see if I can outrun them in the future but I doubt it cause of having to evade.

    I can't be sure that I had an altitude advantage or not, but I was trying to keep a decent elevation, I don't know of anyway to look behind me without slowing down so I can't be sure.

    He probably would have finished me off with tankbuster, but I did notice that I gained distance on him when they tried shooting me with zephyr, for which yes I was flying not-straight when those where flying by my cockpit.


    I was flying straight when the bulldog hit me.

    Another thing worth noting that I noticed in lightnings and prowlers is that you can exceed the aim-down limitation in 3rd person view. I don't know if the tailgunner can do this as well but just thought I'd mention it.

    I know bulldogs have significant horizontal drop so he could have been just the worlds best gunner (DaRkNiNjAnc) or idk. I get killed by bulldogs and daltons a lot while flying and not hovering in place so I wasn't really surprised. I just don't thing the whole aiming straight forward was a good idea, Maybe the aiming under maybe 25-30 degrees more would have been ok but not the 60 or 75 degrees forward it is now.
  16. Cindil

    The bulldog actually has very little drop, relatively speaking. And, it's pretty fast. I find it quite a but easier to tag ESFs with it than the dalton.

    But, I don't really have much of a problem with the firing angles. I've never been in a situation where I couldn't run from a liberator. Just need to be decisive about it. If I hear/see the bulldog firing, I just turn and gun it. Taking 3/3 Libs without a wingman is just rolling dice.
  17. dstock

    [IMG]

    This is a picture of the firing angles for the Tank-Buster (can't move) and the tail gun, whose gunner does not have access to third-person angles. I extended the red (TB) line backwards, so you can see the adjustment needed to bring the tail gun onto something in front of you.

    The only point I'm trying to make is that you can't keep the desired nose-down angle of negative 14-19 degrees (for best speed, to catch the fighter), and give your tail gunner a shot at anything that isn't directly below you, unless you pull up hard and lose forward momentum, or bank away, breaking off the chase.

    I'm calling BS, this story didn't happen as it was told. Do I think it's BS the tail can clip rounds through the belly gun? Sort of, weapons don't have hitboxes in this game, save for tank primaries, AFAIK, but this seems extreme. I understand the sentiment of the thread, I just want the full story.

    Detective dstock, over and out.
    • Up x 1
  18. TheBlazing

    ESFs just need to be faster. I don't care about rendering problems, making them 50 or only 25 Km/h faster would not break anything and make them more reliable when fleeing.

    Also, my best guess as to how this happened is that the Lib was using Racer 3 and Afterburner, while also flying quite a bit higher than you, possibly pitched up a bit, so that its tailgun could aim at you. The tailgunner also got an extremely lucky shot, the bulldog has huge drop and there is no "skill" that can compensate that kind of drop.

    However, I do kind of like the partially front-facing tailgun. For the belly area, there is already the belly gun for all your ESF instagib needs, while to face forward the tailgun is forced to aim down, so I don't think it's OP. Having more angles makes the whole aircraft feel a bit more like an actual gunship than a strange gunship/bomber/figther hybrid.

    I still think that a better Lib implementation would be something a bit more similar to PS1. Basically, the belly gunner only controls vertical movement of the gun/bomb launcher, and the pilot has to complete horizontal alignment to the target for him. This makes an attack procedure more fun for the pilot and makes him more "involved" in the action, and also lowers hoverspamming/camping/ESF instagibbing problems (as the gunner cannot aim at will).
  19. Govedo13

    This ins just another day another nerf liberator topic dstock showed exactly why the thing in the first post is not possible.
    Also ESFs does not need to be more faster since they are faster then anything already.
  20. lothbrook

    At ~ -15 degrees with vert thrusters a racer lib can hit 255, in a dive it can hit 290, without afterburners, so its certainly possibly for a racer lib to catch even a mossie if its not racer, and hit it with its tail gun.