K/D All servers all factions.(repost from reddit).

Weapons don't have to be carbon copies for what he's saying to be true.

If someone dominates as TR or VS, they will also dominate on NC. The majority of weapons imbalances aren't significant enough to eclipse player skill as the dominant reason a player wins a given fight. (Player skill will naturally self-select away from the truly underpowered weapons in the first place, so it'll be best NC weapons vs. best TR/VS weapons, and the difference between those for infantry weapons is very small.)

Known imbalances should be fixed, but let's not pretend joining NC magically makes expert players suck. It doesn't.

The table you made is completely useless. You simply took all characters, no matter if they are level 1 or 100 together. The K/D you used also includes not only Infantry vs Infantry, but also kills by/with Mines, Vehicles, Stationary Turrets etc. So the only thing you can say is that the overall K/D is not so good, but you cant say why. To make a guess on infantry weapons you would need the pure infantry vs infantry kills, excluding mines, and take only experienced players from 70-100. Then you might get way better results. You can do the same for 1-30 to make a guess if or if not NC weapons are harder for beginners. But that data might not be available to you.

I do find it adorable when people say and I paraphrase "NC weapons / vehicles just take getting used to" when in game play terms, what you are describing is an NC character dying and spending more time in deploy and spawn rooms. That is objectively worse when one needs their character out in the field to achieve the objective of capturing a point and killing their opponents. Those seconds of deployment time in to poorly designed defenses adds up, especially across the entire population of a faction.

I don't think this has less to do with the effectiveness of the NC weapon systems.

Elite players will be numbered among the elite regardless of the weapon they're using. Elite players gravitate toward challenges as well.

Now, the so-called "elite" outfits tend to be supported by LOTS of spammy support fodder of their respective spammy factions so there is that of course. The outfits in the NC would be highlighted much more due to population, there have been instances over the last year where certain NC outfits have been notable for their quality. I think this is cyclical.

The big issue for many players is the esthetic. It's just not fun or interesting and the characters look like cardboard armor cut-outs or pajama bags. The slow firing staccato of the NC weapons doesn't inspire and dare I say it, the overall libertarian self-reliant guitar twangy, "FREEDOM!" shouting, corporate ideology is too american... *ducks* ...for a lot of folks.

Many don't really care about that stuff though, but it may have a little bit of an effect.

K/D is the bottom line. NC being last on all servers irregardless of numbers br level or anything else means something is wrong. To argue anything else is just stupid.


DEVS stop the nonsense it is time.

Give all sides an equal chance and then figure out how to balance pop later.

So all elite players just happened to gravitate towards the purple spandex faction? Seriously? Just happened too? Lol? Really?

Lolyoubelivethat****.com navigates to Icansellyouabridge.com.

This thread's NC responses are pretty much the evidence of why NC is the last in KD.

Geebus, I didn't expect that kind of response...

I can tell you're really frustrated though.

Still, I think what I've posted still holds water despite your counter argument. I'm sure I don't have all the answers, but I don't think your assumptions do either.

Even a sieve will hold a small amount of water. Point taken.

Cause purple spandex= elite amirite?

Depending on your level of tolerance for willful ignorance and BS, posts like these are but a hair trigger away from having all the poster's posts put on ignore for the amount of pertinent discussion they bring to the issue at hand. For those of you who enjoy picturing yourself as a Entertainment Wrestler heel, you too can "contribute" such petty generalizations that inflame the ire of others - just don't wonder later why no one seems to respond to your actually insightful observations later but hey, you probably never had plans to do that anyways, so no problem, eh?

Interesting....

I play all three factions and my play style is the same with them all, flying, tanks, INFl, Eng, HA, LA. Here's my personal result:

TR - BR 29 - KD = 1.45
VS - BR 38 - KD = 1.48
NC - BR 46 - KD = 0.53

Clearly I'm having trouble with the NC toys - and so are a lot of other people according to the stats - however you want to cut it.

I'm glad NC are underpowered, it has made NC on Miller what it is today

TR used to have overpop of 40%, now it's balanced at prime time and their "tactical superiority" of throwing 2 platoons on 2 squads of NC/VS trying to defend/attack a base no longer works! Sure they take that base, but how many do they lose! They do have a handful of good outfits that give us a decent, fair fight but for the most part it's zerg, zerg, zerg!

Imagine how good our players got, holding cap points against double or in some cases triple our numbers, even if we only held it for a couple of minutes, it was still a victory for us

If you want to play NC or VS and have a good, fair chance of winning prime time alerts, Miller comes highly recommended

Something strange Ive noticed is people on the forums with signatures of their alts pretty much always have better kd on their VS and TR toons. I know this is true for me too, my VS and TR toons have better kd then my NC... Same player different stats...

The irony is, that is true, but NOT for the reason you are implying.

Thank you for underlining my point with that response.

When looking at numbers like these, it is important to recognize their scale. For example, a .1 difference in someone's batting average in baseball is the difference between a great player and a legend.

That being said, I've put the numbers on a simple chart shown below. Its format is very similar to the ones I used when looking at WDS scores. It's not the best comparison method, but it works.

What another unforunate coincidence for the NC.

Again though the irony is I'm not, dispite what you're still trying to imply.

Indeed.

You compared servers, what about comparing weapons?

I've noticed a number of posts about the gauss saw. How does it compare to the principal TR and Vanu lmgs?

Not a comprehensive list, but here are some stats from the same website:

Gauss Saw: 13,120 users (user defined as someone with 100 kills with weapon), accuracy: 17.43 +- 4.3, TTK: LA - 2.21 seconds, HA - 4.48 seconds. KDR - 1.17 +- 1.438, KDR X (for those who have auraxium medal with weapon) 1.61 +- 1.41

T9 Carv: 12949 users, accuracy: 16.8 +- 4.0, TTK: LA - 2.23 seconds, HA 4.51 seconds, KDR 1.18 +- 1.51, KDR X 1.74 +- 1.6

Orion: 10227 users, accuracy: 18.4 +- 4.14, TTK: LA - 1.97 seconds, HA 4 seconds, KDR 1.36 +- 2.0, KDR X 2.07 +- 2.49

A couple of things stick out. Carv and Saw are virtually identical in TTK but Carv is less accurate. But a Carv Auraxium user has slightly higher KDR. And clearly the orion is the superior lmg of the three based on TTK with a half second better time to kill an HA.

Another thing that sticks out is the spread, the +- in the various measurements. With such large spreads, I think it would be very difficult statistically to use the data to definitively prove anything. What seems interesting is the KDR for TR versus NC. Virtually identical for KDR overall, yet TR clearly edging ahead with auraxium users. This alone could skew overall KDR to the TR side. Question is, why? TR learn to better control their recoil? Or something else? It would be nice to see the accuracy of the weapons with just auraxium users.

Not necessarily, in fact, if you look at my NC alt, it has roughly the same K/D as the VS alts

VS: 4.14 and 5.56 with revives, 3.94 and 4.19 without revives (which is the true K/D)
NC: 4.13 (I was lone wolfing so the difference between revives and no revives should be minimal, I can't check it though because it doesn't appear in DA site), let's suppose the K/D without revives is 4, it should be around that.

So the difference between the Mattherson VS and Waterson NC (the ones with a meaningful comparison because the Waterson VS is biased due to me learning the game) is 4.19 vs around 4.0. Not a big difference, especially if we take into account 2 factors: I have a huge experience with the Orion (more than 24k kills in Waterson) and playing with some of the best players VS has to offer as opposed to lone wolfing.

And on the other hand, despite having a lower K/D with the NC character, I have a higher KPM, since K/D and KPM are inversely correlated when controlling for skill (if player A and player B have the same skill, and player A plays more conservatively, A will have a higher K/D and a lower KPM since playing aggressively tends to get you killed more often).

So no, I don't see any significative differences, skill means much more than the little imbalances that may exist between the weapons, not to mention that NC has the Jackhammer.

KPU is a terrible stat for a number of reasons. Besides, for close range the Gauss SAW is potentially as good as the T9 CARV, put a laser sight on both of them and they have the same hipfire COF with similar TTKs (shorter for one or the other depending on what level of nanoweave they're facing). Not my fault that nobody uses laser sight because the SAW is supposed to be a long range weapon, lol.

The Fury and the Halberd are still devastating weapons. Yes, the enforcer modified is really bad and the TR has the best weapons for the Harrasser, but don't come saying the NC Harrasser is gimped, because that's definitely not true.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I still see NC MAXes all over the place, and they're still devastating, I won't come and say they're better than a ZOE+Nebulas MAX at AI, but they're still pretty good.

In the end, yes, there are some imbalances but they're mostly in the vehicle aspect of the game and they're not gamebreaking and won't affect the individual performance that much, the infantry aspect is pretty balanced imo, so if anyone comes saying that his stats suck because they play NC, sorry but no, his stats suck because he's bad, simple as that. They'll suck no matter what faction he plays.

Outfits with more than 10m average XP

VS: 7
NC: 4
TR: 5

Not that big of a difference considering we're talking about low and discrete numbers.

As for the amount of BR100s, it depends on the server, all 3 factions are 1st, 2nd and 3rd in that category in one server or the other.

All of the above said, as I mentioned before, these stats are global from the beginning, so they don't mean anything if we're talking about CURRENT balance.