The TTK never fit the size/quality of the game

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Pie Chasm, Nov 6, 2013.

  1. Pie Chasm

    OHKs. Fine. Take the average TTK of all weapons vs. infantry, now add flinch, place them on huge wide, open maps and divide that number by 2-3x: that is the reality of the big battles in this game. Zerg fests.

    I try to avoid them. They are incredibly boring and usually end, because some LA failed to render, or some tank was invisible, or the server simply couldn't cope anymore with anything.


    The most fun I have is when the game kind of works properly and your decisions actually matter. That doesn't happen in the epic battles that are advertised by the game, it happens in the quasi-organized 30v30s, or somewhere in that neighborhood.

    In a nutshell, even with health/armor mods, you can die to a single person anywhere, at any time on a huge open plane due to flinch, low TTK and rendering. That's the reality of the situation.


    Look back at PS1. It was long, in the average case, for a very good reason. You were expected to be coordinating in your squad/platoon and fighting en masse, not alone, which brings me to another aspect of the game: reward.

    Land a rocket on a MAX that kills you in an instant, get half of a kills worth of xp and change. Tag an infiltrator with almost no health with a bullet, full reward. Makes perfect sense... OR

    Deal 99% of a galaxy/libs health in damage. Tagged by a single shot from something else, get a critical assist while the guy who dealt <= 1% gets the full Monty.


    TLDR: You copied Battlefield when you should have copied planetside.
    • Up x 8
  2. vsae

    Honestly, Copying battlefield is obvious thing. Everyone does that.
    PS should've stick to old cert system rather than what we have now. Everyone can pull tank, sunderer, ESF, a MAX, which is why we have tank spam, zoe spam problem.
    Ontopic:
    I too prefer smaller medium fights over large stalemates, because you cant do anything there. You dont matter, except you're a tank, esf or MAX. I truly cant believe someone actually likes hiding behind with numerous teammates constantly dying as they poke their heads off. Meatgrinder fights are only fun when you slaughter the losing side.
    The only way to have fun in those zergfest base sieges is to have a moment of surprise. Either drop pod on their head, or gal drop entire platoon. The rest "siege" possibilities are plain boring and only fun for masochists.

    After all said, I like PS2 as it is now.
  3. Goretzu

    PS2 should have undoubtedly stuck to the PS1 cert system gameplay-wise........ the problem though would have been marrying that with the F2P/cashshop model.


    TTK; well short or long has its merits and drawbacks,
    • Up x 1
  4. Pie Chasm

    I know a better version of BF3, it's called BF4. It's the same thing with shinier graphics. The same kind of people who bought CoD, CoD MW, etc. will buy and have bought BF4.

    I don't think it's wise to emulate something that has been copied to death and is now facing diminishing returns at best.
  5. faykid

    I agree that TTK is too dang low. The game would become more interesting if you didn't die instantly simply because your enemy saw you and started shooting a split second earlier.

    With longer TTK, you would actually see the incoming damage, have time to take cover, and then have something like this:

    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  6. MaCritz

    wut...
  7. Sen7rygun

    TTK, incoming damage sources given the numbers of players in the field, the striking distances of weapon systems and protective selections are all fine.

    The TTK is quite long compared to most other popular online FPS games. In COD you die almost instantly in any engagement. In Battlefield its not much slower, 3 to 4 bullets most of the time, 5 if your really lucky or dealing with a sloppy shooter. Its nowhere near as bad as HALO, where every shootout takes 10 hours and you get a meal break in the middle.

    I think its in a nice place. Sorry you feel that you make no difference in the field, I feel like a super hero out there. I've intercepted enough lead out there to put a solid extra 0.75 onto the KDR of every TR player on Briggs.
    • Up x 2
  8. DeusExForever

    Or making the points to take/defend deep inside buildings forcing infantry play. Tight corners where MAX players can't get into, too. That'll force infantry play to close, and not just be a fight between MAXes.
  9. Pie Chasm

    CoD is 8-12 players. BF is up to 64.. and for most maps it's far less than that.

    Halo and UT ftw.. high skill ceilings ftw.
  10. Wecomeinpeace

    One hit weapons are simply ********. I don't care if it's a grenade launcher, rocket launcher, c4, tank or ESF. They are lame.
    The only exception to that would be sniper rifles for me. But self supplying engineers hitting left mouse button for twenty minutes and racking up kills is just cheesy stuff.
    • Up x 1
  11. Astealoth

    TTK is fine. Stop running out in front of 30 people. If you play with no tactical sense then it doesn't matter how much health you have. If they tripled your health and you still move recklessly you'll still get gibbed. Be aware of your surroundings, move cover to cover, peek in a door before running in the room, there's a lot of small things you aren't doing if you think the TTK is too short here. If you are in a situation where there is no chance to survive no matter how well you play, then change the tactic. Spawn to an adjacent zone and get behind the enemy, start capturing another zone to pull enemies off the zone you were getting over run in.

    there's already a TTK buff in game, it's called your brain.
    • Up x 1
  12. The Shermanator

    Planetside 1 TTKs were fast on all the infantry weapons that actually mattered. I don't know where this idea came from that PS1 was slow.
  13. Rentago

    No the TTK isn't fine.

    Halo offers weapon variety, but it also has a shield and health mechanic (That is if we aren't looking at 2,3 and 4.)

    The issue that comes prominent is that the TTK in this game directly influences the weapons we have available.

    I hate how the game is now, I hate how everyone has the same guns, I hate how the difference between weapons is so small.

    I hate you people for thinking making every game like call of duty or battlefield is the only way to make a game.
    • Up x 2
  14. RHINO_Mk.II

    [IMG]
    • Up x 2
  15. Posse

    People want EVEN longer TTKs? Lol, I didn't know we were using pellet guns. People who complain about short TTK are the ones that have zero situational awareness and are always attacked by surprise.
    • Up x 2
  16. Pie Chasm

    IRL a butterknife can be a OHK.... not that anything in this game is realistic, with its butterrock hills and caramel mountains.
  17. Hosp

    Just my 2 Cents:

    Here's what PS1 had to Extend TTK:

    - Only 1 hitbox. Headshot or Legshot, you took X damage at Y Range based on Z weapon or Zx Splash Damage.
    - Most grenades weren't nearly as effective
    - RLs (outside of Decis) were poor against infantry
    - Medkits were Instant use w/ a cooldown
    - Everyone could heal themselves and, if certed, res others
    - Armor (shields here) absorbed an amount of damage while not fully negating it, but also absorbed alot more and didn't auto regenerate, but could be repaired if certed or someone certed repaired it.
    - Implants also extended TTK; Overshield, Regeneration, Second Wind, Surge, Audio Amp; all added to personal (and with communication) squad survival.
    - Vehicles were fewer and much more fearsome. (well, fearsome to most. Didn't much scare PG :cool:).[I guess them being more fearsome is makes this balance out]
    - Passive Deployables
    - Defensible Bases
    - Everyone Can't Get Everything
    - Death Penalty

    Here's what PS1 did that shortened TTK:

    - Vehicles were fewer and more fearsome.
    - Automated Deployables
    - Some Implants aided with killing; Range Magnification, Advanced Targeting, Audio Amp, Surge
    - Boomers
    - Plasma Hand Grenades

    Here's what PS2 Does that Extends TTK:
    - Medics
    - Engineers
    - Med-Kits
    - Suits Slots*
    - Ability Slots*
    - Some Tools

    Here's what PS2 Does that Shortens TTK:
    - Headshots
    - Dime a Dozen Vehicles, deadly but weak
    - Grenades
    - UBGLs
    - RLs
    - C4 (Boomers)
    - Suits Slots*
    - Ability Slots*
    - Weapons much stronger in general
    - Barely Defensible Bases
    - Lack of Death Penalty
    - Everyone CAN Get Everything

    Edit: Almost forgot * = A tradeoff. You have to choose a strength and leave yourself weak to something.

    Now much of this from either standpoint, PS1 or PS2, is also dependent on the skill of the individual and unit involved. But the culture introduced into PS2 was one of instant gratification at the expense of critical thinking and teamwork. You don't need to work together to accomplish objectives because the objectives aren't worth accomplishing. Instead, people grab what will net them the most kills/points fastest and stick to that because they're feeding their epeen and want it fed as fast as possible. And a short TTK does nothing but aid in that type of gameplay. It is 100% possible, with quite a bit of work, to rebalance everything and get a longer TTK, even if it's only 1/4-1/2 a second. But I don't believe SOE cares for that as it might turn off the CoD/BF/CS players that they're trying to pull in.

    TLDR Version: The game doesn't have to be PS1 remade, but I see little hope for the longevity of PS2 if the culture of instant gratification via mindless spam SOE has created within this game isn't curbed for a longer lasting gameplay that rewards teamwork and skill.
    • Up x 5
  18. Nocturnal7x

    Large battles are like a safe, you need to crack the combo to get to the sweet delicious farm on the inside. TTK is fine. Pings are the issue, pings should have been regulated but SOE is grossly incompetent.

    TTK is fine, its pretty long, but when someone has a 500+ ping, and a lot of people do; for some reason people thought it was acceptable to play on a server in an FPS game on the other side of the globe (lots of australians on mattherson...oh and brazilians wtf) that completely skews your perception of TTK because you die instantly a lot of the time.

    They need to fix high ping players.
    • Up x 2
  19. DrStrangeLug

    Ironically my friends and I came to PS1 after Battlefield . And that's the original , awesme, Battlefield 1942 . We felt part of a community,. that you could find a slot and fit in it within the outfit.

    Here you constantly head to a battle front or constantly look for combat. Where's the 'ANT runs', the 'let's drain that base and cut the lattice link to the tech plants' ?

    There's plenty of tactical play but next to no strategic play.
  20. Sordid

    Yeah, the problem with that is that none of the copies is better at being Battlefield than Battlefield is.
    • Up x 1