Infiltrator is nearly a broken class. Here's why...

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by NovaAustralis, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. NovaAustralis

    1. Render distance has broken long range sniping.
    So you've got a Bolt-Action Sniper Rifle (BASR) with 12x scope? Well good luck applying your aiming off, breath holds and trigger discipline during a 48+ battle from 300m out... because you won't see any targets. :mad:
    FIX - decent coding that forces targets inside your scope to render no matter the distance (make it so the scoped view is a 'cone' that projects from the infiltrator that renders targets in it differently to the rest of the area)

    2. Nanoweave armour has broken sniping in general.
    They whole point of precision sniping? Head shots. Oh wait, unless the enemy is wearing Nanoweave armour, then it's two headshots... wait, what!? o_O
    FIX - BASR should completely negate Nanoweave. You only get one shot at a time, but if it lands on their head it's a kill. Fair enough?

    3. Enemies don't render for a least a second after exiting turrets and vehicles.
    That turret you just hacked? Yeah, the enemy player is already out of it and shooting you, but you won't know about it for 1-2 seconds at which time you will be dead. :mad:
    FIX - It's a bug. My suggestion is to code the game such that when a player enters a turret or vehicle, that they are 'cached' for instant rendering upon exit of the turret and vehicle. Something like that maybe...

    4. Occasionally Infiltrator cloak doesn't work.
    Spawn or leave a vehicle or teleporter. Press F to cloak. Hear the sound, don't see any change. Try again, nothing. Try again, nothing. Damn, was I cloaked or not now? Try once more, ah there we go... aaaand I'm dead. :(
    FIX - It's another bug. Hopefully it will get fixed... one day...

    5. Spotting a target now highlights your position on the map.
    As if loudly yelling out a target indication wasn't stupid enough for a 'stealth' class previously, now when you dare to assist your team, you are screwed over for it. Good job SOE.
    FIX - Silent spotting for Infiltrators. Get rid of the 'spot you, spot me' change that was recently implemented for everyone.

    6. AP mines that come with a laser light show.
    Those AP Mines that cost 75 Infantry resources a pop? Yeah, they have bright lights on them now. Why? Because SOE reckons AP Mines are something that should advertise their presence, not disguise it... :rolleyes:
    FIX - GET RID OF THE LIGHT SHOW! What kind of screwy weapons manufacturer puts rows of lights on HE AP mines!?

    7. Infiltrators are impotent against vehicles.
    Unless you hack a turret (and don't killed by the invisible occupant) the Infiltrator cannot do anything significant to vehicles. Beyond the occasional 'middle finger' shot at an ESF or light-skinned vehicle...
    FIX - The infiltrator needs vehicle hacking or disabling or something. (Not C4 though, too OP)

    Good luck playing the Infiltrator as it current stands... looks like we're relegated to using the SMG in CQC to be in any way effective until all this is fixed.

    Some other posts to back me up:
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/september-class-update-infiltrator.106316/
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...dd-logic-to-infiltrators.149953/#post-2117808
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...o-nc-long-ranged-combat-gameplay-pace.148358/
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...potting-for-infiltrators.151489/#post-2141848
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/claymores-since-gu13.144954/#post-2035706
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...-to-save-the-infiltrator.141493/#post-1978351
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/recon-darts.150355/#post-2125165
    • Up x 10
  2. GumboEU

    hear hear
    • Up x 3
  3. K4is0r

    ad 4.) Just wanted to mention, that its the same when a medic want to heal you (even if you are full at health -_-). You can press F, but you wont get cloaked. You first have to wait a few second until the heal animation wore off.

    ad 5.) You should also mention that your darts are now visible on the map too...
    • Up x 3
  4. Deathcapt

    1) you can't have invisible snipers shooting people from beyond render range.
    2) As frustrating as it is, to not 1-hit kill someone with a head shot, it's equally frustrating, when you're on the receiving end of a 1-hit kill head shot.

    3) Unfortunately, there is a legit problem with all vehicle exiting. Ideally you would have an animation for exiting the vehicle, so it gives all clients time to sync up, before the person exiting can start shooting people. It's the same problem with Drop-pods.

    4,5,6 I agree with and are valid.

    7) You can't give infiltrators the ability to seriously threaten vehicles, they would be too strong, what I would allow though, is if you hit a vehicle with a recon dart, it gives a 1 or 2 minute 3D spot on the vehicle, and gives a 20% buff to lock-on time against the vehicle. That way infiltrators can help a team against vehicles, but can't just solo them.
    • Up x 4
  5. Vaphell

    of course you can, just like you can have AV turrets sniping mech from 600-800m away when they are nothing but a blurred pixel on a skyline

    i bet it is alright, especially when it ruins farming juicy mech certs with AV sniper turret or with lockon noobtube. But that's exactly what snipers are supposed to counter.

    [citation needed]

    popping out of cloak and instantly c4ing people would be probably too much, but not even disabling, crippling or a timebomb primed to 10s which would force the driver's hand? It's not like proxy radar doesn't exist and tankistas don't cheat using 3rd person view all the time. There is no angle you can approach careful guy's tank from.
    • Up x 3
  6. Scan

    It think it's time to send a clear message to SoE that the Infiltrator community is no longer taking this ********.

    They need to make sniping just as viable as everything else, because as Vaphel elliquently put, it's ok for Anti-Vehicle turret engineers to one shot people from miles away, but it's not okay for a class that's supposed to be specialized in that sort of thing to do the same.
    • Up x 3
  7. OldMaster80

    The reason why we can't harm vehicles is probably that Infiltrators would have a superior advantage at tracking down and destroying Sunderers. Given the coming change to drop pods and reploying, one single Infiltrator could definitely make the difference in a battle and that's not how it should be.

    I believe Infiltrators should get a new kind of weapon, one that doesn't deal damage to vehicles but just temporarily disables hud and weapons like old Jammer Grenades used to do in PS1. That should be like some kind of EMP launcher or a microwave canoon with mid-short range, slow recharge and single shot. That would be very "Infiltresque": we temporarily disable the vehicles while the rest of the army comes with rockets and AV stuff.
    • Up x 1
  8. TheAntiFish


    I mainly snipe. While i'd love an increased render range, the class itself works fine.
    Don't be a spam-sniper. Choose your targets, y'know like a real sniper.
    That enemy you're looking at, are you unsure whether it's killable? Press Q. The audio cue tends to tell you what class you're aiming at.
    Check for camo, Most HA's with nanoweave have spent some money on this game, the non-subscribers are the ones who probably still haven't saved up enough certs for NW5.
    Is that HA the only target available? [No] Kill its friends. [Yes] Make sure the first shot is a headshot, and prepare for the follow up shot. It's not as difficult as it first seems to hit a moving target, even if you've alerted them to your presence with the first shot. (Be it miss or nanoweave) Yes they may be zigzagging all over the place, but you can see the point they're aiming to (A) get behind, or (B) Get inside.
    Simply wait, let them do their safety dance and then laugh your **** off at the glorious death you've just caused.

    If you want to specialise as a sniper in this game then you have to realise that it's not going to be a simple point+click process. Put some thought into it and before you know it it's coming naturally. Personally i like to use HA's as target practice, they make for good shooting and have exponentially increased my ability to place shots. Just think what it'll be like when the new OHK bolt actions arrive.

    The infiltrator works, it just involves some thought to utilize properly.

    (Realistically i agree that it should still be a OHK regardless of armour, but as it stands it's live-withable.)
    • Up x 1
  9. Get2dachoppa

    Check the bug forum and the thread about nanoweave stopping headshots. Luperza actually responded saying she was going re-message them on the issue. I called her out that here we are a month later, and still waiting for any kind of response.
    • Up x 2
  10. Vaphell

    why not? if one LA falling from the sky can make the difference i don't see why inf can't. I am not talking about instagibbing or anything, but currently in low pop scenario attackers can bog down the few defenders that are there trying their best, leave their sunderer completely unguarded for half an hour and get away with it. That doesn't make any sense, skipping the nonsense and going straight to the source on the other hand does. That's why people resort to exploits to get to the sundie, because it's next to impossible to get there using traditional means against the steady stream of spawning people.

    How about the other team employs some counterintelligence measures and actually protects the perimeter around their crucial sundie? Competent squads do this already, to protect against C4 fairies and maybe droppoding engineers.
    Everybody likes to blabber about teamplay and whatnot, but apparently it ends the moment something becomes an obstacle to their killwhoring near the spawnroom.
    • Up x 1
  11. Scan


    Sorry for the long read, but I hope you'll manage to plow though it.

    Might sound abit overly dramatic, but gaming wise, I've been living with this for the last year or so, and now I'm fed up.

    In this year, I've seen many weapons, features and playstyles either being introduced, or rebalanced to fit the current situation the game is in. The game has evolved. Players have become more informed, and knowledgable about which certs to use.

    As this game has evolved, the Bolt Action sniper rifles have not been touched even once. (apart from "fixing" the sway on high powered scopes.) As such, these rifles are still balanced towards the situation as it was when this game was released.

    The situation being alot of new unexperienced players, uncerted, low BR and still discovering what worked and what not.

    In that situation, Bolt Action rifles were fine, because they worked as they supposed to work. You'd line up a shot on something foolish enough to keep standing still, you'd fire and the target died, delivering his teammates something to res.

    The sniper got his kill, the medic got his res, and the player learned the lesson of not standing still on top of a cliff when there are snipers around.

    This was balanced. No one ever complained about bolt-actions one shotting people. Bolt action rifles one shotting you if you got hit in the head, was a given fact. Everyone complained about Liberators bombing the living feaces out of hordes of people inside spawnrooms from 2 KM above.

    Then as months progressed, people started collecting certs, improving their weaponry, improving their survivability, and in general growing less stupid.

    During this time, the Infiltrator has always been at the short end of the stick. Clearly visible cloak on low settings, completely worthless "scout rifles", extremely loud cloaking noises, appearing on the minimap when firing recondarts, being visible on thermal/IRNV even when cloaked, and as time progressed, we learned that Bolt-Action rifles did have damage drop off, without being informed about it by SoE.

    At first we thought it was a hitbox problem. Slowly we started realizing that it was not, it was just the headshot not killing the target. But how was this possible? Bolt-actions didn't have damage dropoff did they? Then a few guys (including DrankTheKoolaid) started experimenting, and learned that not only did the rifles have damage dropoff, despite of SoE saying that they didn't, but everyone who had Nanoweave rank 3 and above could survive a headshot from 75 meters away.

    The community itself had to discover this. Much like everything else. The cloaking noise, the visibility, all the dirty crap they implemented to chain the Infiltrators' hands behind his back, out of fear that they might become too powerful. There have never been any patch notes, or announcements that this change had been made. No reasons given. "Stealth nerfs" we came to call them.

    This current day, much has been done to make Infiltrators more viable, and as far as CQB/Medium range is concerned, I think the Infiltrator is currently in a good position.

    Sniping however, having never been rebalanced or re-adjusted, is still the crap position the scoutrifles were in originally.

    Any low BR player will spend his first couple of certs to get Nanoweave up to rank 4. This means any low rank BR player, will be able to counter a sniper. The upgrades to the other cert slots didn't do much to solve this, since at lower ranks AND rank 5, Nanoweave is still king.

    As far as I'm concerned, they don't need to nerf Nanoweave at all... but they DO need to increase the minimum damage of Bolt-action sniperrifles to 625 damage at 75/100 meters.

    Just a small tweak. There's no way anyone can get me to believe it's alot of work to adjust the minumum damage on the enourmous ammount of 9 "diffrent" Bolt-Action sniperrifles by upping it with 75 damage.
    • Up x 5
  12. MajiinBuu

  13. Scan

    Started a thread on the suggestion forum, suggesting an easy and effective solution for all our sniping problems, without throwing the entire balance in disarray.

    Upping the minimum damage on BASR's by 50 points will solve this problem, and will still give players with NW5 a chance to survive a headshot.

    Here's the link: https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...ge-of-bolt-action-rifles-by-50-points.151640/

    Now go upvote.
    • Up x 1
  14. Deschain

    They can just add a Headshot multiplyerx10 problem solved, no need to change weapon stats or nanoweave.
    • Up x 2
  15. Scan

    Do you have any idea what that would do to MAX units? :D
    • Up x 1
  16. TheAntiFish

    I don't disagree on any particular point, but at the moment it's hardly game-breaking. Although since the last update i feel like the suppressor has been nerfed a bit but y'know, compared to some of the other issues i can happily wait for this to be fixed!
  17. Gordachi

    So here's my noob opinion. I've been playing just infiltrator since I started about 3-4 weeks ago, starting as a sniper but moving into base infiltration. I can see a reason for the non-one hit kill headshots, and can somewhat appreciate it.

    When I play as part of a huge push, it seems like a war of attrition. This may be partly my fault, as I'm not part of an outfit, but the effort always seems thrown together on my side. When we fail, I can tell that it is because there is some level of organization on the other side. This is definitely a game in which organization will win out over pick-up groups.

    Now, imagine that instead of pick-up group squads, you have small squads (maybe even just 2-3 people) that are snipers. If you coordinate headshots with the group, you get 2-3 headshots at once, killing the target. So I guess my point is that it forces organization if you want to kill someone.

    Just something to think about, I don't really necessarily agree that this is balanced and fair, just that there may be some rationale behind this aspect of a sniper-based infiltrator. For the record, I agree with all the other points in the OP.
  18. Vaphell

    remember that you are talking about the only pure anti-infantry class in the game. It's insane to assume the struggle to kill its primary and only targets is justified. Compared to the ease of SMGing, sniping is so UP it's not funny.
    • Up x 2
  19. Iridar51

    I heard a story, don't know if it's true or not. In Chechnya war, chechen snipers shot off radio antennaes on russian tanks, rendering them unable to communicate with their unit. And if tank crew got out of tank to fix this, the snipers would shoot them too. Picture yourself inside this tank - you probably don't even hear the impact sound because of the engine rumbling. So suddenly the radio just gets silent.

    I don't suggest that planetside 2 snipers should be able to disable any tank with any weapon.
    But they do have some new rifles incoming.
    What if those were anti-material rifles? So you use a special scope mode, which highlights vehicle's vulnerable places. Just some small spots on the exterior. And shots in those spots could damage the tank like regular AV weapons, or, even cooler, disable their functions. Or both. All the disables would last until tank is repaired. Or they even could be required to be repaired individually.

    Hit the navigation computer, and you get distorted map. Hit the ability module and you disable it (radar, fire suppression, etc).
    Hit the track chain segment and you either disable the movement of that track or just let it work at half power.
    Hit the main computer and parts of HUD vanish. Etc, etc.
    Or even wound the driver.

    Infiltrator will have to be very skilled to continuously hit those spots to damage or disable tank enough, and this will both give infiltrators things to do, and reward skilled play. Obviously, infiltrator will receive small amounts of exp for each successful hit.

    The shots piercing armor could be explained by nanites (cuz lazy or NS), using electromagnetic technology (NC), alien plasma wunder waffen technology (VS), or just high speed SABOT-like bullets (TR, obviously).
    • Up x 5
  20. ewokinarmor

    I agree wholeheartedly. Listen to this guy, Sony!
    • Up x 1