DEVs listen to your player-base. Stop obsessing over nerfing the "reverse" maneuver.

I am sure they wont miss you.

Flew across this thread, found it the most coherent explanation of the changes and how it effects over all game play.

Your loadout, just like any class loadout will determine your fate.

Why don't they just scrap the esf and design aircraft like aircraft never did like the 2142 style aircraft

"flys for a living"? That;s the problem right there in a nutshell. We don't "fly for a living". Most of us have jobs and don't have the time or inclination to spend hundreds of hours learning to "fly for a living".

SOE should make Planetside 2 for diehard gamers or casuals, but not both.

Yeah welcome to a real skilled flight sim like IL2. This game has no real air skill to it that was my point. If the planes flew like a real plane then you would have more elite pilots and some of the elite guys that can fly now could not fly at all because it is more realistic. All I ever see in these forums is about realism or one shot kills like a rocket killing infantry in one hit YEAH BECAUSE ITS A FRIKIN ROCKET HITTING A GUY. This game needs a 2km flight ceiling and no hover while 50m above the ground or air pad. It also needs the use of head movement while flying for SA. What the Hell give it lock on enemy tracking outside the plane view to help new guys.

According to Higby on Command Center, the Reverse Maneuver will still be in game, only that you have to take AB pods and cert into them to be able to do it.

So, I don't know how this will make a difference. I suck at piloting ESFs, but can do the reverse move, so it does not matter.

Listening to the FNO, "maybe getting pods off was the intent" holy ******* **** dude are you dense?

It is clearly the ******* intent. Plus hover strafing is still perfectly doable even without any certs on test server, just not at dogfighter velocities.

It's still not hard to figure out.

I learned how to "reverse maneuver" without even trying to do it. I was trying to learn how to circle a location and strafe side to side wile focusing on a single spot. I realized if I pitch my nose down wile doing that it would shoot me backwards or just flip me around at nice angles. So I kept on doing them....

Later on I realized this was the coveted reverse maneuver. I wasn't trying to reverse... Just trying to be more nimble in the air wile I was a noob. I'm not special.... A lot of new players can figure it out intuitively...

Also, it's really NOT the end-all-be-all maneuver like people make it out to be. It's very useful but if that's the only thing you can do in the air then get ready to be shot down often...

Is this sarcasm? I'd actually believe you were serious after reading what some people think.

If you played flight sims yourself and also flew in ps2 you would realise how stupid your argument sounds, you are obviously talking without any experience. PS2 isn't a flight sim, there is no air, no gravity, no energy, no nothing. There isn't even an optimum turning speed to add the tiniest bit of depth, like in BF3. None of the traditional WWII flight tactics or maneuvers apply. There is zero depth to dogfighting while flying forwards in this game.

Future Crew does not represent "the community". Please seek the advice of other pilots who actually approve of this kind of ESF specialization. I hope that you find my opinion constructive and a valuable part of this discussion, but I understand if disagreeing with the OP is reason for another forum ban. Future Crew does not represent my opinions. My opinions are my own and may not represent the opinions of anyone of sound mind.

Like this guy. He is obviously sane and not entitled to speak for the community.

Reverse isn't about shaking pilots, it's about fighting pilots. That statement just shows that you aren't someone who understands the reasoning behind the the reverse maneuver and ignore it because it's "unrealistic". This game isn't realistic and it lacks the physics for a realistic airgame. Reverse manuever is the best thing we've got and if that goes then it'll just be bird of prey style A2A and turreting that occurs, nothing else, the airgame will become completely unapproachable for new players. Far worse than it is now.

Reverse manuevering better isn't the only way. Aiming better is. People really seem to misjudge the reverse manuever as some golden crutch that pilots rely on, but it isn't, they can just aim. It's why these same pro pilots are often good infantry players also, because they can aim while multitasking.

I can reverse manuever just fine, yet I still lose many A2A dogfights against other pilots, not because they maneuver better than me, but because they have better aim, likely due to much longer experience playing PC FPSes. And don't ******** about an infinite number of possible maneuvers to get on their tail, in this game the only way to get on someone's tail who was pursuing you is the reverse maneuver or some obstructing terrain, and terrain is rare in the skies.

Pretty dense.

We've heard a lot of theories and explanations. Everything from it's being nerfed to help new players to the misconception that every dogfight turns in to a hover fight with both players reverse maneuvering or the one not performing it loses (which is wrong).

The irony is this change as it current stands will hurt the inexperienced players. The people running nosegun/burner loadouts generally are well above average players, and they are getting buffed. I don't want to see dogfighting revert to how it was early to mid beta, but it sounds like this is going to happen and the really good pilots will be made near unstoppable.

It will successfully get pods off my aircraft, but it won't stop me from farming infantry, and it will definitely help me farm other aircraft.

I mentioned FC one time, and that was during the player intro. I was invited on as a pilot just as Rak was. All my opinions were my own, not agreed upon points of my outfit. I'm sorry my outfit tag offends you.

Let me restate your point into something a little clearer, along with all the fallacies in your post.

There are several Logical fallacies in your argument that make your point completely invalid.

There is the Ad hominum - I disagree with you and therefore you say I dont understand the reasoning behind the reverse maneuver. QED you called me stupid. Good start to any internet discussion.

There is the strawman - You state shaking pilots isnt about fighting other pilots. Oh my where to start with this. I know I just shake pilots from my tail and forget they ever where there. Shaking pilots from your tail is about being able to turn the tables and get the jump on them Shaking pilots IS about fighting them. Strawmen are classic in internet forums, as you misrepresent your opponent.

Then we have the appeal to consequence. - We do not have a real flight model, therefore Reverse maneuver is needed. Its a pointless position as one does not imply the other.

Then there is the slippery slope. - Without reverse maneuver the air game will degenerate into circling each other. Well no, no it wont. Before reverse, we had circling and we had diving flights, we had situational awareness. I dont want to say this as its a bit sneaky and probably would never occur to a reverser. I even *shock* would bait other pilots into traps with more ESFs or even AA.

All that is wrapped up in an appeal to fear. - New pilots wont be able to get in the skies as they wont be able to fly against the pro circlers. Of course just like now where they cant fly against the pro reversers?

That last is also a strawman, you associate the change to AB thrusters so they wont be as powerful unless moving has implications in making the air game more accessible.

You do show a good ability to disambiguate Ill give you that, but its a poor argument you make.
Ill state again, I fly, I ike flying in PS2, I shoot down other aircraft, Im not the best on the server but I hold my own. We wont see a degradation in the air game with this change, it wont remove reverse maneuver, you might need to use AB tanks to use it properly. What it will do as well is remove the reverse spin lolpodders.

I welcome this change, and I also laugh at your feeble argument.
(points given if you can work out the fallacy of that last statement)

Why do people think the reverse maneuver allows you to fly backwards to your hearts content? You fly backwards for, what, a few seconds tops.

Lets change that then. You say that it isnt the golden maneuver but say that it is the only way to get one someones tail? Make them behave more like conventional fighter planes.

Oh really now? If the reverse maneuver isn't that big of a deal then how about you make a compilation of you winning encounters using other moves that are just as good as the reverse maneuver.

Sure, if SOE wants to spend the next couple months building a proper physics engine that'd support that. But doing that would also destroy the unique VTOL style of fighting we have now.

And I said it isn't the golden manuever because aim is more important than skill using the reverse maneuver, providing both can use the reverse maneuver. Want the reverse maneuver to be more accessible to newer pilots, solution is simple, tutorials. One of the many things this game falls so heavily on. Nerfing it isn't going to make things better for anyone other than possibly people who don't understand what AA is and get repeatedly owned by one propodder.