The Ultimate Combined Arms Thread (Tanks vs Infantry)

Can you add the thing demonstrated in your signature EliteEskimo ?:
GUN STABILITY

Nothing destroys tanking more than having to stand still whenever you want to be able to aim at something.
Especially since 0.00% of the outside terrain is truely flat.

Game is currently almost back to the bad old days of vehicleside 2, especially since they can now spam spawns for masses of easy kills again (due to splash damage going through walls and shields).

Personally I think they should make tanks difficult for infantry to kill, but also make it difficult for them to kill infantry! Then try and improve tank v tank combat. Harassers could be left as they are I suppose.

Similar goes for ESF's - although at least they take some skill to operate.

By your entire statement you say it should only be a numbers game ... meaning 1 Tanker = 1 Infantry Player ... so by this statement 1 Vehicle should equal the same number of Infantry players the Vehicle has as crew? So you want to be Rambo eh, right ...

If this would be the case, Vehicles should be as accessible as Infantry, would be unfair otherwise. Remove all resources, tech requirements and reduce timers.

I know that the turrets are kinda miss placed and the entire design behind them is kinda corky, AV guns should be on the high ground and be able to look down.

The issue is two sided, Infantry hates fighting Vehicles but attacks them nonstop, the true Tankers would like to fight more Vehicles but only ends up against Infantry all the time. In a perfect world scenario, Tanks fight Tanks and other Vehicles most of the time and Infantry fights Infantry and maybe a few Vehicles most of the time.

But this will not happen unless base design changes and the range of Infantry based AV changes. Sure Tanks want to play a role in taking/defending bases, but Infantry has powerful close range AV tools, given the right base design Vehicles are at a disadvantage there. Nerfing the range of Infantry AV outside of bases will make Vehicles more dominant outside. See .. problem fixed ...

Well .. not all problems, squad deploy and beacons need a nerf that they go strait down without any steering ... or an SOI preventing them to just drop where ever they like ...

Agreed with everything other than C4 complaints. Until C4 persists after death or costs nothing if it isn't detonated, it is still one of the lowest scoring things you can do with your resources :/

But you expected that from me

About time you made this post. I agree with most of your points, except base design. There should be bases, apart from biolabs, which are not accessable by vehicle. Esamir was a little overkill, especially concerning all the unnecessary trees and hills they put into the plains. If they left that out, I would say it's a well designed continent. Sure, certain bases, including tech plant and amp stations, should be vehicle accessable, but not all. You need to accept that you are not required everywhere, just like infantry is not required everywhere.

Good point about the infantry weapons (except C4), I agree whole heartidly. I'd suggest actually to up all the armor on all tanks (including the lightning), and simutanously increasing the damage of AP/HEAT rounds, to further the role of tanks as the most effective anti-vehicle vehicle and reducing the effectiveness of anti-vehicle infantry weapons (excluding mines/c4).

Users abusing a bug doesn't qualify as evidence of game balance. Splash damage from all weapons goes through shields. That includes UBGLs, grenades, rocket launchers, Lashers, C4, and tank weapons.

It's already very difficult to kill infantry for any tank. We have to land direct hits with any round to get a OHKO.

So what you're seeing is tankers who have developed sniper-like accuracy with their rounds because misses are very unforgiving.

If you're getting killed regularly by tanks, I have two suggestions:
1) Get in one, see how easy it is to land direct hits on moving infantry, especially with an AP round, which has almost no splash.
2) Flak Armor. Tanks are the reason it exists. Why does nobody cert Flak Armor? I know Nanoweave is nice, but it's not the only one.

Now, I do have suggestions concerning HE rounds. They're not that good against anything. We need to clearly define their role.

Raise splash damage. A lot. So that I can actually kill someone with splash. Now, decrease direct damage to something stupid, like 500. Maggie's does 1175 right now, for reference.

Make it barely ping against tank armor, but wreck infantry. If a tank running HE meets a tank running anything else, he dies miserably because he can't compete.

Nope, just that if you have a lot more infantry than you do tanks, its no wonder tanks will get screwed. I don't just mean hex population either, 5 guys focus firing on one tank will do the job even if those 5 guys are then killed by the other 4 tanks, it is still a number game. It's clear that tanks currently are worth more than infantry, that is what balances their resource cost.

A lot just have simple things like elevation angle wrong, its strange how badly that aspect of the game has been done, so I hope a few balance passes will come along eventually.

Some infantry attacks tanks non-stop, just as some tanks put heat rounds in and go farm infantry. At range tanks can one shot infantry (if they render) while infantry cannot one shot tanks, so they have the advantage. I think turret stabilisation is a good thing to lobby for, as it would allow tanks to do battle while moving, and thus less susceptible to infantry fire; along with a general raising of the skill ceiling for lock ons.

It's less about base design, and more about mobility, make it so tanks that are aware can avoid most long range AV fire. I find it damn hard to lance a target at long range if they are moving for example. But still have long range AV so tankers don't just sit back and shell bases from range.

Beacons imo need laser designators. Give LA's a tool to lase a target, and these points are pretty much all the podder can see through the heat of the descention through atmosphere. Again, it's not a straight up nerf, its a change to raise the skill ceiling, and promote teamwork while still allowing one of the main uses of the pods. Though squad deploy is rumoured (? or maybe it was just suggested) that it would no longer use pods, which I am happy about, these were OP as all you need is a body to drop on.

Great post and I completely support it! The new Esamir is great for infantry (especially maxes!) but is awful for any tanks.

And the bases, with all their imperfections (it does feel like WALLS were one of the less-graceful ways of handling that) are great. But all the terrain between them is wrong. It was perfect the way it was, without all those steep valleys and rocks and trees taking up real estate.

Esamir is the TANK continent. It even gives 10% off tank purchases if you own it. It needs to be suitable for tank use.

Wow, the OP got way to much BS from people attacking the way he wrote things as compared to the actualy subject:

Infantry have both an easier way of aiming (lock) and a longer range than a tank!

Infantry can drop 2 c4's on a tank and blow it up, it also bypasses any certification of reinforced armor. What other type of AV can do this? - none!

How is this not OP?

The MBT's role (wiki); this can be considered to be our magrider, prowler and vanguard

Thus being the go-to when there is enemy armour on the field. They got armour shelling your infantry, you bring amour with AP to counter that.

So the MBT's have to be strong enough to take on enemy fire, fight back and relay information to the outfit/team.

MBTs are supposed to get up close and personal, which is kind of how it is today and this also speaks against increasing the range of MBTs. The MBTs are NOT artillery. That role should be left to a dedicated vehicle which currently doesn't really exist in PS2. We had one in PS1 that ancient tech one which I cant remember the name of.

MBTs rely on external support such as unmnanned aircraft for long range combat. This could suggest infantry, but long range in this context means aircaft/cruise missiles/artillery.

The Light tank's role (wiki): this can be considered to be our Lightning

After the MBT's or aircraft cleared out the enemy armour, the light tanks roll in. Such places would be bases.


Point is; Infantry is not the AV counter at long range in the real world. The MBT's, aircraft or long range support such as a guided missile is. The infantry can however spot the enemy armour and relay that target to the team which can then use long range to take the target out.

I don't mind that infantry can take out a tank with decimators, lancers, phoenix, strikers up close / medium range (well within a tanks fire range where he can fight back). - but to let infantry take out a tank well outside of that range, thus making infantry the long range weapon of choice - that is just silly.. Leave that job to artillery / aircraft or perhaps infiltrators that spots the enemy. I'm not sure if even AV maxes should have such a range, they should be the backup the infantry bring with on the open field for those pesky tanks/lightnings that get up close and personal.

As for base camps, remove the shield so we can go inside and actually stop the enemy from spawning and add a wall outside the spawn room doors (annex) so that the entrance is no longer direct line of fire - Spawnfarm fixed

Well written post and I agree with you on most if not all points(OP post).

The quote even more so, I find infantry farming boring and I only got my HEAT/HE Auraxium medals for my Vanguard because I wanted the medals, not because I like the guns.

TITAN-150 AP is the way to go and offers for fun tank fights which are alot more entertaining than farming infantry.

...Although I do snipe the occasional infantry player with it, but I'd go so far to say that shooting at a moving infantry unit with AP requires a lot more skill than using AOE.

personally I play infantry most of the time, but I also have put some certs into Vanguard and Lightning. This is what I think the way most people should play like, concentrating either on vehicle or infantry but also playing the other for a good time. This way everybody gets some points with tanks and helps conquering bases. When people ask for mor dedicated tankers, they want to farm points because they like tanks, while people, that are more likely to play infantry get screwed.

I'd go so far as to say it requires more skill than using most infantry weapons. The velocity is really low and you only get one chance.

I don't have Auraxium with any of the tank guns, but I like to think I'm a pretty good shot, and there's a lot that infantry can do to make it impossible to reliably him them with AP.

The Low velocity might be true for the Magrider indeed, I have an easier time hitting infantry with my TITAN-150 AP because of the best stock velocity.

I agree, moving infantry can be a pain to try and hit, but then again, they should.

Agree with everything Eskimo wrote except the C4, I've never really had any problems dealing with it, although giving tanks innate C4 resistance on top armor seems like a reasonable change.

As already mentioned, infantry have way too long range on their AV weaponry, infantry already have several large advantages over tanks with a low profile, and very user-friendly weaponry (lock-ons, sniper AV and camer/laser guided) against a targetwith a already large hitbox.

Av turrets are indeed OP. A sunderer caught in the open field have ~13 seconds after first impact to either move to cover, or somehow communicate the location of the AV turret to a friendly tanker/esf, with the only knowledge of the general direction of the engineer.
Indeed, when defending a base, my first action is always a suicide rush with AT mines. Failing this, I'll spawn at the next base a few hundred meters away, take a flash to some distant mountain, and then just pick of the sunderers one by one while the atackers are left powerless to do anything about it (unless we're talking some truly insane communicating and coordination skill)

Good stuff Eski, it came out well.

Nope

I got this:

This is so true and should be sent to a GM/DEV!

_Nerf my hover,____________________________Now relent,
_______Nerf my strafe,________________________For tanks have died.
___Buff the tanks I always face.______________All because of ForumSide.
____I don't care, I'll float free,_______________Tanks should die most to AP,
You can't take the Mag from me!______________Not to f***ing infantry!


t's beautifull

This is MY fix for the AV Mana Turret:

• Limited Range of 500m before round detonates - It is wire or laser guided. You keep a certain range while also limiting the extreme ranges most people attempt. 500m is also well within the range of AP, HEAT and most AV ES secondary options.
• Limited Ammo Capacity - A starting ammo capacity of 10 for the AV turret that is unique for an infantry class as it can ONLY be resupplied by accessing an infantry terminal or armor resupply unit. A cert line is created to allow more ammo for a maximum of 20-25. Redeploying a new turret maintains the same ammo as the previous.

I won't mention anything about the rendering since projectiles will be getting a fixed/revamped next GU15. AV rounds will render, a fix for all RLs, especially the red magic missile, long rifles, etc. Expect some good changes in that update. It should be on PTS by tonight or next week.