Stryker and Vulcan TR air Dominance = Dead Air Game

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by phungus420, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. phungus420

    The air game is just simply ruined because of stryker spam.

    Pre GU11 the primary ESF killer were AA MAXes, this was evenly split among all factions. With the Burster nerf other forms of anti air have taken over. This is a problem because the TR have a weapon system that locks on at up to 500m, continues to maintain a lock for about 200ms after LOS is broken, and autohits - often ignoring flares and clipping through terrain - that almost a third of TR infantry carry as standard loadout, for free. Further A2Am were also fixed in GU11 and combined with Strykers this means any engagement over TR infantry is defacto autodeath for Reavers or Sythes since there is no way to differentiate between Stryker locks or A2Am (and sticking around against ground lock ons is automatic death for an ESF, and likewise running from an A2Am lock is also autodeath). Keep in mind around half the TR heavies in this game have the Stryker anti everything superanhilator autohitting, clipping through terrain, killing ESFs at up to 1km range weapon.

    Things get compounded by the invisible god mode cloaking field that large groups of players self generate. Often over TR airspace you get in a position where most of the enemy air is behind the invisible god mode cloaking field and still able to lock on A2Am. Often times you see a mossy, close to engage, get locked on and suddenly 3 or so enemy ESFs pop into existence within 300m firing their missiles (the invisible god mode cloak seems to drop at further ranges after firing a weapon - I think it has to do with how render priority works). This is a problem with all ESFs, however the dynamic nature of the invisible god mode cloaking fields in this game are exaggerated by TR strikers since not only is there a constant threat of TR heavies lobbing autohit stryker rockets in invisible god mode, but TR's total air dominance due to it's stryker makes things snowball and you simply get more mossys that mass around TR zergs and outfit balls - meaning TR always have more invisible god mode cloaked ESFs with A2Am in their groups of players.

    Not only has this completely destroyed any semblance of air balance, but it's forced all factions to swarm their own ESFs, since there is no way to survive flying by (an often invisible god mode cloaked) mossy swarm without an air swarm of your own. This means everywhere you go in the game it's swarms of ESFs with A2Am. I'll take this last bit as a change in the metagame pushing for teamplay. It sucks for me, as it has completely destroyed the game I played (as a lone wolf ESF), my game is done, it's over and gone, but that's arguably just the way it is. It sucks though because it's made it so even playing as TR the air game is just boring since you always must fight 3v3 or bigger air engagements where the numbers rather then skill matters because A2Am simply outshine even well aimed rotaries in groups.

    The air game has just become boring, and extremely frustrating as a lone wolf. There is nothing in the air game to do but to mass in groups and spawn camp. If you're in an organized outfit maybe you have fun rampaging around with 5 of your buddies and ganking people. Other then spawn camping and zerging (or swarming with your outfit and spawn camping that people have decided is tactics and team play), and flying around massed ganking folks, there is no air game, none at all, these are you two options and these options are extremely unchallenging and dull from my perspective (While I have enjoyed roaming around with Spadar or Soleks just ganking mugs from time to time, I have done this maybe a couple times a month, I can't enjoy the lack of a challenge as a primary playstyle, it quickly becomes dull).

    I don't know what my point is. But the air game is dead from my perspective. It's just styker owned skys creating huge mossy swarms and all the horrible gameplay that has naturally formed due to these huge (often invisible god moded) mossy swarms. And I find it dull and uninspiring as well as exceptionally frustrating. I used to love the air game. I originally thought the burster nerf was great, but in hindsight it sucks. GU11 has made the whole air game totally one sided and completely unplayable unless, like I noted, you enjoy rolling around in large groups ganking people with numbers and spawn camping.
    • Up x 10
  2. Riskae

    "The air game has just become boring, and extremely frustrating as a lone wolf"

    you are not important. like... honstly what do you bring to this game for others?
    • Up x 1
  3. Blarg20011

    Sorry I'm having trouble connecting "Vulcan" and "air dominance." And can someone PLEASE tell me how to create a cloaking field?!
  4. McChimperson


    Render distance. This is most pronounced in A2G (infantry not rendering above 300m) but also happens for A2A(the situation goes from clear skies to enemy ESF's out of nowhere).

    Also the vulcan is an instagib any ESF that gets stupidly close. I learned my lesson and don't bother chasing any vehicle with one.

    The fact is 1 faction having superior AA does not a fun game make. TR have the lowest TTK AA guns and the zero-cost no-fly zone that is the striker. The other factions simply don't have any way to put as much damage into the air as Terrans, yet TR air is just as strong as any other faction.
    • Up x 7
  5. Blarg20011


    Yes, but he is phrasing it as if it is somehow unique to TR. Like VS and NC have unlimited render distance or something. Overall, 2/10 on the quality content scale, 9.5/10 on the whine scale.
    • Up x 2
  6. ROMNEYTRON

    Am I the only pilot who has literally never had a Vulcan fire on him? And I'm the type who "lolpods" a lot.

    I'm on the Connery server, if that makes any difference.
  7. WUNDER8AR

    Buff Vulcan.
    • Up x 1
  8. McChimperson


    Well the fact remains TR just has superior AA options. When the devs add those ridiculous dome shields Vulcans will be tearing up a lot more Scythes as Reavers.
  9. Fanaticalist

    The game's tough if your a lone wolf on the ground too.
  10. Wintermaulz

    I agree, the striker sucks horribly. Lets change it into something actually interesting. But dont you dare touch my vulcan.
  11. Rothnang

    Yea, I'm not a huge fan of how the air game has changed with less prominent AA guns. As a Liberator pilot unfettered ESFs are a much bigger problem than Bursters ever were, and as an ESF pilot you very quickly find that in the vast empty sky numbers can crush skill even harder than on the ground. There is simply no way to attack one plane while another is killing you, so numbers tend to win big. (Which is exactly how squadrons and formations work in dogfights IRL, but for the purpose of a game unfortunately make the outcome of many battles a foregone conclusion)

    I have high hopes for the ESF change, I really hope it's going to bring the air game into harmony more.
  12. WUNDER8AR

    Bringing Vulcan into a AA discussion is just ridiculous. Yes, it tears through aircraft, aircraft that are piloted by baddies that is. Nothing else, period.

    As for the Striker. I have yet to see striker missiles ignoring flares or clipping through terrain. I bet that all of this is a result of network lag, giving pilots the imagination that they flared/ dived behind cover in time, yet they actually didn't. Though somebody feel free to post a (post GU11) video proving otherwise.

    It's been said countless times already. Striker sees a lot of usage because we have no other option. I wouldn't mind if it was removed, in exchange for something more interesting/ challenging to use. No, I'd actually wholeheartedly appreciate it. I'm certain that a lot of TR actually see it from the same pov. About time that the whining moves on to another subject anyway. Still waitin for the day where VS uses Lancers and Vortexes en masse. Or NC/ VS using the common pool lock ons in large numbers for a ******* change. The server hosting the forums would probably melt due to the amount of flame
    • Up x 6
  13. NeverWas

    vulcan has always been known for it's ridiculous A2A capability.

    and when it's maned by the faction with most population, imagine the chaos.

    RIP waterson VS NC air.
  14. theholeyone

    I've seen trees take out an ESF in less than a second, reckon they need a nerf before the Vulcan does.

    Striker on the other hand, is a skill-less piece of garbage which unbalances the game by being; skill-less, effective, and glitched. Failig a complete redesign which both sides have been crying out ofr, at least fix the bugs and revert to the old pathing system you could actually get away from the rockets.
  15. SNAFUS


    That may be but my own outfit hunts aircraft just as much as armor when they put a Vulcan on a harraser.
  16. Zagareth

    Sounds like a frustrated pilot. Adapt or Die! When your mind is not flexible enough to adapt to any situation, then you deserve to die! Plain and simple.

    I could also say: Learn to play, but hey... that would be too simple, isn't it?
  17. Darkfusion425

    If it was just the ESFs that were having problems the the vulcan I believe we could adapt but the fact that its shredding galaxies in mere seconds is a bit ridiculous
    • Up x 1
  18. WycliffSlim

    Strikers... well, everything that needs to be said about them has been. It's pretty well documented and accepted that they're glitched at the moment. They have either incredibly good tracking that leads them around terrain or they clip through terrain with alarming regularity. An alternative, albeit less likely option is that the devs secretly included drilling heads on them and they just drill through everything straight at you.

    It's incredibly annoying the get locked, break LOS and then hear, *pink pink pink pink pink* as you frantically pull 180's around sheer cliffs and fly through tree's at ground level.

    Granted, I'll also say that some TR claim the Striker is buggy on their end and occasionally just stops locking but I can't confirm that. But yeah, purely due to how prolific they are and the fact that they counter everything, the Striker is a serious problem right now and often dissuades me from even fighting in TR airspace because I KNOW that even if I'm fighting other aircraft I'll be getting locked on to. It's an annoying weapon that many TR don't like and no NC or VS like.

    As for the Vulcan... yeah... it's a bit ridiculous against air right now for several reasons.

    1: It can now 1 clip a Liberator in about 4 seconds from full health at closer than about 50m.
    2: You don't have any sort of special auditory way of knowing that a buzzsaw is going through your health.
    3: It literally almost insta-kills a close range ESF.
    4: It's effective against good pilots too not just ones that hover spam. By this I mean that the Saron and the Enforcer CAN kill and ESF if it's just chilling right in front of them for several seconds allowing multiple easy shots. And, unless it's literally the worst Lib pilot in existence, you flat out can't do much damage to a Liberator. On the flip side, the Vulcan just tears through aircraft as soon as they're low enough(which can be created with a small incline) and there's no good way of knowing that there's on on the ground until it starts shooting if you can pick up the sound.

    I will say that I've adapted a bit already and rarely get killed by the Vulcan but it's contributed to A LOT of my Liberator deaths. I feel like I should be able to make it out barring a tank getting off a shot and suddenly my Liberator is on fire because a Vulcan spun up.

    Simple fix: Just drop the ammo capacity back down to 30 uncerted. That's all I'm asking. That way it COULD still one clip and ESF but there's less room for error and it could do a maximum of about 70% damage to a Lib. That's still pretty high but I understand that the Vulcan needs a decent clip size to be worth anything so it's acceptable to me.

    Either way, the combination of Strikers and Vulcans make fighting the TR extremely annoying right now.
    • Up x 2
  19. WycliffSlim

    Not to mention the fact that it can one clip a full health Liberator in ~4 seconds.
    • Up x 1
  20. phungus420

    You lot are very focused on vulcan vs ESF at is pertains to the thread, but that's not what I mean. Vulcan shreds libs and gals, and gives added air dominance to TR that already is over the top to TR. This creates a net effect where every TR zerg/outfit ball has more ESFs, and it simply has completely changed the air game, because before AA MAXes were the primary ESF killer, now TR's extra systems to deal with air just keep pushing that air dominance to snowball.

    I mean really, I just want to see the damn ESF while he is locking me at least, having an ESF pop into existance when he fires the missile at 300m while I am taking evasive against a G2A is just wrong. And you can see this happen due to the invisible god mode cloaking fields large groups of players self generate. It's a real effect, and it's major how it impact the air game right now as mossy swarms just dominate the air game. It seems like that would be fine for a fourth factioner, but it's not, it's made it so lone wolfing as an ESF for TR leads to wierdly large border regions, it's just completely wrecked the game I have been playing the whole time.

    This isn't necessarily a bad thing. The game may be shifting toward a more team focused gameplay in the air. But it's notworthy to me because it's ruined my game as I saw it. Again that's not necessarily bad, but I don't like it, so I QQ

    Take that however you want.