There is a total of 10 ppl whining about C4

It's...not? As far as I can tell, you can only drop C4 about a foot in front of you.

Seems more like it's an issue with having the ability to drop pod on top of enemies rather than C4.

Fair enough, but we use the combo of drop pod + C4 quite often to deal with tank zergs at medium range.

So please stop acting like it is a complete failure on the tank drivers fault or that the tactic is easy to defend against.

Well, then fix drop pods instead of nerfing C4 to fix a 'broken' tactic? I mean, usually I find that drop podding into the midst of the enemy results in quick and certain death, but if it works for your outfit. *shrug* It's not as if drop pods are silent and invisible. They're on a timer as well, as far as I can recall, unless they've changed that recently.

I would be fine with 1 c4 block destroying a tank as long as it could no longer be tossed. I like the idea of a powerful explosive but it should have a setup time like droping ammo as an engy and maybe take twice as long, and rename it as a more scifi sounding device. If you could also alt fire it as a timed explosive then id be ok with it detonating even after the users death if successfully placed.

Between beacon and squad deploy, you can drop the entire squad twice in rapid succession. If half of the squad manages to kill a tank on each drop, that is 12 dead tanks. That is not counting the liberators we manage to destroy with our pods on the way down.

Stop acting like this requires a great amount of skill to pull off. I suck balls at FPSs, and I can manage to get a kill half the time.

So how is this any different from a coordinated squad using lock-on rocket launchers? Plenty of videos exist of outfits using them to great effect to kill both air and ground targets. From your post, all I can see is that teamwork is apparently good.

Whoops double post.

Lock on launchers have a hard counter in the form of smoke/flares perhaps?

A lot of the gripes about the lancer come from the fact that an organized group of them can kill you with zero warning and zero chance to escape.

my only problem is that as an NC max i'm stuck in cqc (aka c4 hell) and the cost of maxes just went ridiculous but we didn't get a defense bonus to compensate so its 350 resources to have a minute or 2 (if you're lucky) of max before getting C4'd.

Squad deploy and beacon need to share the same timer (my opinion). Also, I detest how a squad can keep deploying on a dead person (yes, I realize the squad deploy has a coold down of 5 minutes). Unlike a beacon, you can't remove the dead man to prevent the next squad deploy wave.

There might be a little less overall hate for C-4 if the above was changed. There's be a little less hate if tanks could cert in to a defense against C-4 (but at the cost of being slightly more vulnerable to AP tanks). See pages 35-39 orsomethign int he MBT vs C-4 thread where Eskimo and I discuss a potentially acceptable compromise between tanks and C-4.

Because the power of vehicles (and their ability as more people got more certs in them) has risen since the start of the game, whilst C4 has remained the same?

It's so simple, I'm sick of following the 10 of your around explaining this.

You spend 450 resources on an MBT and you get a force multiplier. It makes your average score per hour 3 times higher. It's up to you whether that's worth it or not, depending on whether you think you can can your tank alive and kicking.

You spend 100 resources on a stick of C4, it's not a force multiplier, it's a utility. It has no effect on your average score per hour. It doesn't change your offensive or defensive capabilities. It gives you a mediocre chance of scoring a finite amount of XP that under the most generous possible circumstances (two adjacent tanks, with 4 occupants, all extreme menaces) is 2210xp.

They're different ways of investing your resources. One is a frontloaded XP bonus, if you will, whilst the other is a buff to XP gain rate.

The balance doesn't come from whether 200 resources of C4 kills 450 resources of MBT. The balance comes from whether 100 resources invested in C4 scores, on average, as well as 100 resources invested in a tank. Just FYI, it doesn't.

Yup.. emergency amputations, emergency decapitations.. stuff like that..

Engineers shouldn't carry it either. Is he an engineer or an anti-tank specialist? I was under the impression the heavy assault was an anti-armor class. The fact that nearly everyone has the stuff because they want 1000-3000 points for a quick tank kill means nowhere is safe and every drop pod, or ESF with ejector seat or instant action or squad deploy or galaxy drop could be someone with C4 about to land behind you.

First.. my opinion: C4 is fine.. all the whiners should take their thumbs out of their mouths and finish their baby-food..

Now.. that said.. This argument sounds good.. but for the price of 1/4 of a tank aren't you taking that enemy tank out of action for a while? You are right when viewing the issue just from the C4 users' perspective.. but there is an argument to be made that you are *removing* a force multiplier with a less costly item.

That said.. there are LOTS of ways to fight tanks other than with just armor.. I see it in big fights all the time.. massed dumbfire rockets work wonders against an armor attack.. and now because armor isn't so spammable.. there is a real cost to just rushing the gates. Mikey likey.

I think it is a combination of this, plus the fact that the armor options for tanks pretty much suck.

When the PL calls for a coordinated drop to wipe out armor, we usually drop with a mix of C4 and AT mines. The mines deploy faster and don't despawn when you respawn. Leaving a tons of AT mines in the middle of an enemy tank column cause a lot of damage and confusion while the C4 gets the kills.

The AT mines can be countered by using mineguard. They need to add an armor option that reduced damage from all non-AP explosives by 15-20% at max cert(HEAT, HE, C4, etc). It does not reduce the damage from things that a designed to punch through armor(HA launchers, AP rounds, AT mines). So if you pick this options, you will barely survive 2 C4, but you are going to take more damage from a lot of other stuff.

I've made my stance clear on most of these threads. But...

Regarding drop-pods and C4, that's a stupid combination. A tank driver should have a message on their HUD or mini-map for incoming drop pods. As someone who uses this and has this used on them, it is sometimes pretty cheap.

Not always, but there are those circumstances where the person drop-podding really only earned the kill through "click" instead of actually getting up to the tank in question.

Most of the time I'm in a situation where I can avoid the guy dropping down by hearing him. Other times I'm in a situation where I can't move away fast enough, or there is so much going on that I can't pinpoint them or just don't hear them from all the sound.

It's funny how little the engie argument is brought up, as they are the only class who can pod in and solo C4 a sunderer to death. Though the heavy with C4 and deci can do very similar.

This is a good argument, and I myself said in another post that i didnt think C4 needed nerfed or have the cost increased.

However, you are taking something you paint to be a very utilitarian and mediocre item in the game, and removing a force multiplier with it. Which describes something that is out of balance in my eyes. Not in a major, gamebreaking, experience ruining kind of way, but a bit out of balance.

Do i think C4 should destroy vehicles? Absolutely.

I do not think that almost every class should be able to carry it though. Heavy Assault? Yes. Medic? NO.

I do not think it needs a damage reduction.

I do think that it should do an amount of damage based on what part of the tank on which it is placed.

I do not think it needs a cost increase.

I do think that vehicles need a slight cost decrease. Key word: Slight.

In short:

The biggest, most practical and balanced approach is to have it do damage based on where it is placed while juuust slightly reducing the cost of vehicles. After all, this is a combined arms game. I do hate the tank spam myself, especially the Prowler spam from the TR on Waterson.

but again... it's PURELY the droppods that you're "abusing"

I wouldn't even call it abuse. You're expending 2 cooldown timers to pull it off, and it's a legitimate ingame mechanic.

If the enemy starts dropping guess what I do... I back the hell off and farm them as they pop out. When they stop raining, pull back up and resume bombardment.

Hey now... my medic loves his C4

It's COMBAT Medic after all.

I actually have 2x C4 on LA and Medic HA is next.

Medic is the hardest class to use it on actually. LA is best obviously, and HA becomes a major tank buster with C4 & rockets (being able to quick solo non-blockade sunderers) while also having overshield, where medic's helmets have a bright white on them, and only a AoE heal aura to help survivability. I actually use it more against MAX/infantry traps (ie; gens) on medic than against armor... though if a tank rolls up next to me and gives me the perfect opportunity I'll take it.

I don't tend to run after tanks though... I use LA if I want to C4 bust tanks.