Can we give ESFs a higher bullet velocity?

Hey guys.

Can we give ESFs a higher bullet velocity on their nosegun?


One of the reasons why we don't see as much AA combat as we otherwise migth have is because the bullet velocity(also known as bullet travel time or speed) is so terrible, and when coupled with the agility of the crafts in PS2, it makes it extremely difficult to hit a moving target other than point blank.

This is also a big problem for the Scythe in particular.
The Scythe is "Balanced" by having a "Pro"(No bullet drop), and a Con(Slower bullet velocity). The problem is that bullet drop hardly even plays a role in A2A combat, meaning that its pro is almost useless, while it's con is a notably disadvantage in comparison.


For example, the bullet velocity on jets in BF3 is quite nice.

It'd also be cool if bullets carried the momentum of the aircraft.

velocity needs a buff on all guns.

A sniper goes 900 m/s in real life. PS2's do 500, 600 for the .50s.

The other guns aren't much better, with the nose guns being the most noticeable. I am sure a gatling round from a fighter jet sshould have a better velocity than a pistol's.

Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind seeing tank shells getting a buff in their velocity.

Would also be an excuse to give the Magrider back some more of its mobility

Backed into a Scythe buff.

6/10

Well, tank shells (AP) should fly around at about 1 mile per second.
That's like 0.6 seconds to reach 1 kilometer, or more/less max render distance for vehicles in PS 2.

People complain now that the Prowler when deployed with fully upgraded anchor gets around 400 m/s of shell velocity, 400 m/s is only 1/4 the real AP round velocity.

The scale here is a bit smaller so projectile and vehicle speed must also shrink to keep up.

For those who want quick bullets- the default nose gun on ESFs has high velocity and high accuracy. At around 500 meters it has greater effective DPS vs a motionless Liberator size target due to the rotary spraying too much.

Currently, long-range tank engagements is like playing the lottery in PS2; as you pray your target suddenly doesn't change direction ;P

If you can still lead a target the range ain't really that long.

Real long range engagements require the use of the personal waypoint to check the range, as well as spending hours in VR to know how much to compensate for gravity at what distance.
If the target moves within the 2.5-3 seconds a shell is flying, the whole elaborate firing solution becomes useless, so I nearly exclusively kill deployed Sundies at 700 meters or more.

Fighters gatlings also shoot 6000 rounds per minute, which would tear any other fighter apart within a second... sounds like fun

rounds can go much much faster than that, snipers generally have a slower velocity due to them being quieter AFAIK.

And in real life the velocity drastically drops to much lower values over distance, half that of in game, which it does not so basically evening it out. Even so, A game has balance issues to take into consideration, and most certainly do not need a velocity buff (With the exception of ESF's, more noticeably the Scythe, as I agree with the OP)

Our existing "buff" is the lack of bullet drop, which doesn't play any part in high velocity air combat below 600m anyway, and infantry doesnt render at those distances, hence further reducing the impact of bullet drop.

I'd happily have TWICE the bullet drop of other empires if i just had normal bullet velocity.
Drop doesn't do jack S in air combat (or air-to-ground combat, as you don't hover in place 1km away trying to snipe with your nosegun).

Really don't see it. I, and many other pilots that aren't just calling for flying to be a carbon copy of the worthless air system in BF3, have absolutely no problem with leading onto targets and the current nosegun velocity. Many of us would also happily sacrifice 50m/s (around 10% speed) to remove bullet drop entirely.

Just be grateful you don't have a horrific autoconvergence issue to contend with; that'll really **** your leading 10 times harder than slow bullet velocity...

guys, the topic isnt so much about improving bullet velocities across the board...
... let's talk about ESF noseguns in particular. ALL factions.

That is indeed true.

But rather than just normalizing the Scythe's nosegun, I would also like to improve the velocity of all Noseguns on all factions.

they actually nerfed mossie velocity some patches ago, I have no idea why

now if youre in a turning game even if you have a perfect lead pursuit your aiming/impact point is actually off the screen until you level out a little, its very annoying and not how jet noseguns work

Having issue with maintaining small AoT while keeping lead on target?
Enter a banking turn and add slip in the pitch direction using the ascend/descend keys.

If you don't get it, press descend when pitching up into a turn, ascend when pitching down into a turn.
Keeps AoT w.r.t. velocities minimal while maintaining firm leading w.r.t. plane's spatial orientation.

yes I know how to trade momentum, the problem is a mechanical deficit of the slow bullet vs the tight turning, turning more intelligently doesnt mitigate the problems when turning as agile as the craft allows, simply your target point (where the rotary needs to aim to hit) drops off the bottom of the screen for periods.

It's not about turning slowly. Maybe you misunderstand flight terminologies - AoT is angle off tail - given the two flight vectors projected in the plane of the defender's turns, the inverse cosine of the dot product divided by the product of magnitudes of the vectors returns the AoT in radians.
I'm talking about keeping a larger turn radius while having the same angular velocity, or having an actual significant angle of attack while matching the enemies' turn radius and angular velocity. Both provide excellent gun solutions with smaller amounts of deflection needed and solves this issue for me when flying pursuit curves. My craft flies somewhere between lag pursuit and pure pursuit, but my nose heading allows me to have positive deflection at almost all times. This lets me fly looser curves while leading the target, without losing the target off my screen or closing too rapidly (hence avoiding very tight turns or at worst an overshoot)

yes sorry i corrected that, not expecting to counter envelope discussions i realised when I read it back it was too general for what i was trying to say. Slowness, a little yes, thrust adds angular velocity and operating counter to the turn like that will have a little slowing effect (larger radius) but it wasnt conveying the meaning so I changed it, yes I do understand what you mean and still say there is a mechanical problem in the low velocity of the bullet meaning I cannot aim if I turn as tight as the craft allows.

Im in a mossie for the most part and it simply doesnt dump speed as well as the reaver (and scythe to a point) so any extra lateral movement is going to cost milliseconds of arc in a turning game.

Im not talking about losing the target off screen, im saying in a close turning dogfight you have to aim off screen to hit them. The aiming point drops below the screen border because the bullet velocity is too low.

most sniper's rifles in use today don't even break 900m/s in muzzle velocity let alone at range... an m40 only averages around 770m/s and a m107 only 850m/s ( depending on the ammunition type)... also it has nothing to do with sound... a 7.62x51mm or .50BMG is just as loud out of a sniper's rifle as it is out for a GPMG or HMG... also a suppressor on it's own won't really effect the velocity noticeably or make the rifle much quieter for that matter but it does help keeping the sound from traveling as far... the only time suppressors work decently is if you use subsonic ammunition which is fairly stupid when sniping since the velocity is so low it cuts the effective range by a large margin... ARs generally have higher muzzle velocity than sniper's rifles because they use moderate size cases with much smaller/lighter rounds...

now dedicated long range calibers can get really high muzzle velocities... the .416 Barrett hits 960 m/s but that is because it is basically a .50 BMG cartridge necked down with a .416 bullet in it so it's the same amount of powder pushing a smaller round... it's also a very nice round because you don't need a .50 cal to take down a person and all you have to do (since the cartridge is the same dimension as a .50BMG) is swap the barrel.... it gives the same weapon a nice option to serve better in both anti-personnel and anti-materiel rifle roles...

now for something like an ESF chaingun I would guess we are talking about something more like 20mm weapons... like an M61 Vulcan which breaks 1000 m/s muzzle velocity easy... tho I suppose like most weapons in game for balance and game size issues that would have to be lowered otherwise it would fire like a laser across an entire hex

so in order to hit them you have to occasionally point your gun so far ahead that the enemy isn't even in your screen right?
That's what I mean by having to lose your target off screen.
It rarely happens to me because of what I do with my v. thrust, but..
When that happens I roll 180 and perform a reverse thrust in whatever plane of motion we're doing so long as I have enough altitude. This gives me perfect gun solution since he's flying into my reverse thrust (he's turning in that direction already) and as I depress my nose, by nature of reverse thrust move I inch ever so slightly backwards...

either way an increase in velocities will be nice.