Rebalancing G2A and A2G

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CertifiedPi3142, May 9, 2013.

  1. CertifiedPi3142

    I have seen a lot of whine on the forums about Burster MAXes being overpowered and Rocket pods being too effective at taking out everything on the ground.

    Based on what I have read and my experience as a fighter pilot, these are the main complaints
    1: Dual Bursters shred aircraft way to easily, especially in groups
    2: Bursters are too effective at range
    3: Skyguards are crap at everything
    4: Rocket pods are too spammable, making it relatively skill-less

    Here are my suggestions on how these problems might be fixed
    1: Switch the projectile of the Skyguard and Burster MAX. Skyguards believed to be crap not because of the low damage, but because of its poor accuracy and projectile speed. If the Burster projectiles have the same flight characteristics of the skyguard, but keep the same damage, it reduces the Burster's range without making it too weak. Skyguards, on the other hand, would have more accurate projectiles, making them better at range. However, with its low damage, the target will have time to get out of the way. This will make the Skyguard an effective mid-long range air deterrent. The skyguard should not be able to damage heavy armor though, as I find more luck killing other tanks than aircraft.
    2: Reduce the magazine size, fire rate and area of effect of rocket pods, but increase the damage such that the DPS and magazine damage is unchanged. Rocket pods seem quite well balanced in terms of anti tank, but they can be spammed way too easily. My proposed change will reward accuracy and punish spam as there is a much smaller margin of error.
    3: Cluster bombs for ESFs. I suggest a bomb which breaks up above the ground, releasing 8-10 small explosize pellets. This would be the anti-infantry secondary so the full spectrum is covered. Each pellet should not be able to kill a soldier, but if several pellets land in the vicinity, the target should be dead. Furthermore, the spread of the pellets should be proportional to the height the bomb was dropped from. A higher drop would lead to a larger affected area, but you sacrifice precision. On the other hand, pilots who fly low would be able to deal a lot of damage, but only to a small group. Tanks should only be affected to a limited extent though.
    • Up x 1
  2. MBRicochet

    I feel the exact opposite about A2G. I do not thingk ESFs should be built around killing infantry. ESFs should be air supremacy first, anti tank second.

    I like the idea of lock on bombs to quickly hit tanks and escape before AA can kill you better. I would rather be doing hit and runs against enemy armor, and feeling like I'm helping the big fight. Than cruising around trying to push 16 rockets up some poor guys *** who is just trying to get to the next base on foot.

    Currently, the only thing ESFs seem to be good for is pumping 16 rockets up the *** of lone or small groups of infantry trying to take a base away from the main fight. It's a joke.
  3. Chiss

    We just need more secondary modules for ESFs. Less people using rocket pods = better game.

    And i'd rather these secondary modules not being weapons. Give us a shield, or something else like fuel tanks.

    I want to see nose-gun only ESFs around.
    • Up x 2
  4. Konfuzfanten

    No thats the Daltons job.

    No, thats the zepher jobs.

    The ESF should not be a mini lib, its a figher not a ground attack aircraft.
  5. Phazaar

    Please for the love of God could you prove this? I'm damned sick of hearing this crap constantly. IRL fast jets are used 90% of the time as ground attack aircraft. There's something like 6 air-to-air weapons a Typhoon can equip and 240-something air-to-ground weapons.

    What we have is a VTOL jet (typically a ground attack aircraft) that can hover in 3 dimensions without losing any control (like a helicopter...) that is able to equip dedicated anti-infantry nose cannons that have next to no effect on aircraft, and dumbfire rockets (typically for ground attack) that have an incredibly low velocity, and most importantly of all, a top speed 10kph faster than the top speed of a bomber.

    It's clearly NOT the air-superiority interceptor you would like it to be. It's clearly much like the Lightning. A single-man reduced-survivability air craft intended to be outfitted to counter any type of threat. You'd have to be stupid not to see that.




    Aside from the occasional new player, I'm pretty sure this debate was settled long before GU08 (and GU08 just made it even more certain). ESFs are piss-poor weak and ultimately pointless in the metagame now. Yes, they're fun and you can get a good few kills, but if there's an objective to fight over and two platoons going at eachother, whichever one wastes resources and people on air -will- lose the fight. So much easier to just have three AA MAXs that can resupply to AV when the enemy air isn't around. No resource cost. No risk. No loss of kill-potential.
    • Up x 2
  6. MBRicochet

    The Lib cannot be expected to offer effective strike capability and remain balanced. It suffers from the same flaw as the current rocketpod ESF against ground targets.

    A threat, that must have a counter, or else it will ruin the ability for things on the ground to exist.

    If a Lib has the ability to stay in a large fight and kill stuff, then it will likely be insanely OP in all minor fights. Same with an ESF with rocketpods.

    The truth, AA needs to be as strong as it is in order to counter the air that is. The air needs to be changed so that it can be allowed to fight again. The current air cannot be allowed to fight, or it will break everything on the ground that moves. Things need to be changed a lot.

    Realistically I would prefer that ESFs be air only.

    The ESSF, Empire Specific Strike Fighter, basically an A10 and the basis of a slower anti ground options with bombs. No super reloading rocket death. Just 4 or so guided anti tank bombs, or w.e. Must be reloaded at a base.

    Libs, being the heavy flying warhorse, resistant to flak, and being best countered by ESFs. Has staying power to offer effective long lasting air support *aka* raining death from the heavens. Anti Flak upgrades should cost the tail gun position. If you want to have enough armor to get in the fight, then you're even more helpless against ESFs.

    If ESFs are going to bet geared for air targets, they need air targets. ESFs are geared for ground targets because of the utter lack of Libs and Gals. ESF dogfights seem to be constantly fought with nose guns anyway. You reap what you sow. SOE sowed a boring airgame. Variety is the spice of life.
    • Up x 1
  7. SebDollar

    Then you are calling for a buff to the Liberator? Because at the moment, the Daltons job is being used as A2A and the Zephers job is to spawn camp in battles that have been won long time ago by the ground force. At the moment, the Liberator have no way to engage tanks or infantry. They have been nerfed time and time again against tanks, and have no answer to burster maxes.
    So what you are suggesting is exactly what the OP calls for. A rebalance of G2A and A2G, so the Liberator can be useful again.
  8. MBRicochet

    In order for Libs to be unchained, the ESFs need to remade to offer a counter. In order for ESFs to be unchained, they need to lose their rocketpods. Simple as that.
  9. SebDollar

    I dont care about rocketpods. I haven't used them on my Reaver in ages, and it's quite possible the thing i get killed by the least in ground battles.
    The only point i'm trying to make is this: Stop calling for a nerf to ESF's A2G capability using the argument, that it's the Lib's job to engage the ground. If anybody believes that the Liberator can have any major impact on large battles at their current state, they are delusional.
    (this is not dirrected at you, but people making such claims)
    • Up x 2
  10. UberBonisseur

    You can't equip a lightning to deal with Infantry, Armor and Air all at once though.

    This always was the problem with the Rotary/Rocket duo
  11. Soldat

    A2G is broken u have to slow down to render infantry or have Vision on them with nv or thermal
    if u do.. you are an easy target for dumbfire rockets or bursters or skyguard or tanks or whatever
    not to mention that u have no awareness of other aircrafts..
    it Needs many rockets to kill heavys and maxes in one run is impossible..
    how much ppl get an inspwan burster asap as u even try to lolpod them
    try to shoot someone in large battles i'd like to Count till you are dead
    1...
    ;D
    a burster sees u waaaaay before u can or he is actually Shooting
    at your friend
    u can kill one unexperienced burster with 2 esf if hes not in the spawn
    u can do nothing vs 2 and hope u just get out of that area with an radius of 600 m
    i whould say bursters shall loose damge over range a bit
    and make new lolpods one for killing infantry and one for killing vehicles..
    btw have u tryed to kill an harasser when hes not an complete idiot?
    how much Attention u Need to hold him in taget theres no more room to pay Attention on something else
    or just get away
    for all Pilot get a wingman it makes it much more easy
  12. Ture

    I think G2A is fine, put a min LVL4 composite armor on your ESF and dual bursters don't bother you that much anymore.
  13. Bankrotas

    Well, to remake ESF, there isn't much you would need to do. Just remove hovering capabilities and add minimum speed to stay afloat.

    Then create special landing zones, where landing would be immediate for esf's to resupply and repair. Those zones would maybe resistant to damage from outside, but would need generator to have shields.
  14. dsty

    lockon spam is my biggest issue when flying my esf or lib i cannot see where he is shooting from he renders me but i don't render him that's my biggest issue. The striker to me is a super buffed NS Annihilator
  15. Phazaar

    Doesn't deal with Air nearly as effectively as extended afterburners...

    That observation aside, I understand your point, but you need to realise this is a necessity for aircraft. Since air are neither stationary nor necessary, they must be able to address any threat in order to certify their existence.

    If an aircraft can only take on enemy aircraft, there's no reason for it to exist, since the enemy aircraft will also be no threat to the ground forces.

    Balancing has to be done not based upon what generates the highest kills/hour or the easiest K/D ratio, but what makes large battles worthwhile for all, so combined arms actually exists. At present, air is excluded from large organised battles (hence peoples hatred of them; because all they can do is farm undefended infantry in the middle of nowhere).

    Especially with the removal of strategy from the game, logistics and organisation are the only 'higher level' functions still in existence. As a platoon leader, I need a reason to have aircraft. That reason has to be that they are A: the most effective form of anti air (not currently true), and B: they are the most effective form of anti-ground for when they've won the air battle, so their fight has meaning (also not currently true). The maps aren't big enough, planes aren't fast enough, and beacons+redeploy exist, so I don't have to worry about things like precision strikes or fast response.

    With the tank buffs, I do now roll tanks occasionally, but all in all, infantry only is the easiest to co-ordinate type of platoon. That should -always- be the case. The problem we currently have though is that not only is it the easiest to co-ordinate, it is the most powerful in every situation. Whether attacking or defending, versus infantry, tanks, or aircraft, in the open, in a base, co-ordinated infantry are always more effective than co-ordinated tanks/air or combined arms.
  16. Goretzu


    That in essence is the problem: they make ESFs ground attack aircraft and fighters (unlike in PS1 where the two were seperated).


    So now basically you can run a one man aircraft that is armed and the counter for anything in one build, and its only actual counter (that isn't area denial) is itself.
  17. UberBonisseur


    But the issue is, "adress" is always "killing"

    So far, rocket pods adressed things by just taking a big dump on Infantry and Armor alike.
  18. Phazaar

    What would you prefer it be? Buff and wax? Cut and blowdry??

    We have no statuses in game like immobilised, weapon destroyed etc, so what else is the point in fighting for air superiority?
    • Up x 1
  19. MBRicochet

    Completely right. This game is about winning. The air in this game isn't something that can push you to victory or even help in a big fight. They are nothing grander then giant flying pests. Their only niche is irritating solo players and harassing the edges of larger.


    My issue with A2G is it's raw killing power. My idea is simple. Reduce the total possible killing power in exchange for a higher ability to deal damage where it counts.

    Don't give ESFs reload able rocket pods that can be spammed for an extended period of time.

    Instead of an ESF being able to "if allowed by lack of counter" the ability to kill upwards of 10 targets in a single sitting with out needing to reload. Reduce that total killing power for a quicker and more effective system that requires reloading at a base. I am thinking BF2 bombs.

    Lots of good ideas to implement this.
  20. Konfuzfanten

    And im reallty sick of hearing about real world crap.

    RL =/= PS2
    YES/NO?

    Yea and thats why the devs keep nerfing its A2G potential, you have to be stupid not to see that. And now Higbys is talking about adding a new A2A ESF weapon...because its not an air-superiority figher.

    No, i dont think the lib need a buff, as long as the range of all infantry based AA gets its range nerf to 200 meters (current dedicated G2A launcher range), buff the skyguard a some tweaks of the overall AA options on ground vehicles.