In this thread http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/buffing-the-maxes-defense.120590/#post-1644049 people started discussing the idea of unlocking MAXes rather than having everybody able to simply deploy them. The germ of this was that in their current state MAXes seem quite vulnerable compared to their PS1 incarnation. My understanding is that in PS1 MAXes were bullet proof, required Certs to unlock them. So they were tougher but harder to obtain. What would people think of a similar scheme in PS2? Not necessarily making them immune to small arms but certainly making them tougher to take down with small arms. In return they would need to be unlocked and would cost more INF resources to deploy. As an unlock cost I think 1000 Certs or 700 SC would be reasonable, and a deployment cost of 200 INF. A cert cost of 500 was mentioned by one of the original contributors in order to make MAXes available to F2P people. This was felt to be enough to deter everybody and their dog from pulling MAXes all the time.
Being one of those aforementioned contributors, my reasoning behind having a cert cost would be to: 1. Cut down on MAX spam by people who only use them to crash or troll. 2. Open up the possibility to buff their defense in the future, the reason being that they require much more to pull and only a few dedicated people will be using them (as it should be IMHO). 3. Allow for the possibility of MAX survival outside of indoor areas, as we all know a MAX in the open is a dead MAX. 4. Make MAX units more of a presence on the battlefield, instead of their current lol status. Our intention is not to keep people who want to use the MAX from doing it, but rather to keep spammers out of the MAX and hopefully in doing so allow the class to be developed further. Thoughts?
Would that idea really work out in the long run though? It certainly would prevent newer players from unlocking a MAX but without an upper limit on the amount of certs you can have and spend on your classes and equipment this would only delay but not prevent MAX spamming. The only chance of that ever being effective in some way is probably to make it an SC only unlock and then we'd be back at the pay to win argument. I do agree though that something has to be done to make the MAX more viable in some situations and not just when he has three engineers glued to his back camping a door or doing AA duty near an ammo pack.
I think even in the long run it will cut down on spam considerably. Sure, after a while people will have enough to cert into pulling a MAX, but how many people will want to spend 500+ certs on doing so? Also, once they do that, they'd be more likely to continue certing the MAX because if you're in for a penny you're in for a pound, so why stop there? If they waste the certs to pull it, they might as well beef it up. It's my opinion that there are few people who will behave like that though, most will see the hefty cert price tag and just go buy something else. However, you argument has merit. But it can also be applied to anything in the game. MBTs, ESFs, Sundies, etc. All of them have certs to reduce the acquire time by a large amount, EVENTUALLY everyone will buy a few of those slots if we all play for a LOOONG time and have maxed all of the stuff we already like. Does that make sense? It sounded pretty good in my head
Why is people spamming MAXes a problem, though? It isn't as if there are a limited number of them available to each side, so what is the issue?
The MAX is already a very cert intensive class and the default without dual weapons is kind of weak, so you may have a point if you consider that you only get one AI, AV and AA gun to start with and you'll have to dump several thousand certs into the class to make it decent at any given role. Overall the devs would still have to balance it for the fact that everyone may eventually be able to get one, so even if there was a cost of entry into the class, that alone wouldn't be enough of a reason to buff it up. Perhaps if there was a point in your career that you'd have to decide to dump a class or vehicle for access to a MAX suit then buffs would be possible.
It's the same problem that plagues MBT balance. Because they're too easy to spam, you can't buff them to make them actually respectable on the battlefield. By making MAXes more of a rarity they could be buffed to a point where a single block of C4 or 2 rockets aren't enough to destroy them.
The issue is the buff comign along. The idea is that if we want to make the MAXes better we would need to cut down spam.
That's a pretty good idea, to cert a MAX you'd have to give up another class... I'd have to say this would work well on top of the additional cert cost to unlock, because there are many people who could easily drop a class (Combat Medic for me ) but may not be so willing to drop a class and 500-1000 certs. Also, the idea of dropping another vehicle is a good one as well. It'd have to be a vehicle that everyone uses often enough to make them miss it... Can you say Flash? The Flash makes sense because it's around the same resource cost as pulling a MAX, but it won't be missed terribly by those who wish to go MAX. However, for those who want to just occasionally troll as a MAX it will be a pretty heft price (who DOESN'T use the Flash every once in a while?). Thoughts on that?
Exactly. People just want to be killing machines so nobody but them gets access to it. Maxes already need the most SC/Certs to be of real use in all areas compared to everything else. A mix-max is no threat to anything basically.
No, I don't want to be a 1 man army or killing machine... That's not my thing. I would however, like to not be 1 clipped by an enemy heavy, date-***** by LA wielding pump-action shotguns and randomly 1 shotted up by C-4 bricks being defecated on me by aforementioned LAs. The Devs can't do this however because currently everyone and their mom can pull a MAX and it'd be unbalanced if you had everyone pulling them every second they got. What we propose is that there be some type of limit or red tape to stop the casual MAX spammers or sunday MAX drivers from just pulling a MAX whenever they feel like it. Any suggestions to help us come up with something?
Make us impervious to bullets and 50% resistance to explosives and then bam! cut our DPS in half. Would rather be a meatshield for my team than a dead "killing machine"
There seems to be a lot of conflicting opinions here so ill just say that the original idea is poor and illogical.
Erm...possibly we have been thinking of this the wrong way round because something just occured to me. Don't other classes have more Slots to put upgrades into? An HA has slots for Ability, Suit, Grenade and Utility. A medic likewise. IRRC a MAX only has Ability and Suit? Vehicles likewise have several more slots with different upgrades in them. So why not simply add slot options for the MAX? Somebody who wants to pull a vanilla MAX can do so it will be as powerful as the current MAX. OTOH somebody who has the inclination and CERTS to spare can make a tougher and more dangerous MAX.
Personally i would remove SC payment option, this should be achieved by playing not by paying. And while i dont think its a bad path to choose, these also other idea that brought my attention: That, i believe, is also a very good path, allowing to personallise max more for own playstyle.
MAXes need to be a one-way choice; as in, once you get nanites to encase you into one, you won't be able to get out until you die and get re-spawned. I think this would add a small deterrent to people just going AA MAX when convenient and then going back to whatever class.
