TR/NC need drastic balancing if VS is to regain pop

Lancer = underpowered comparatively
Proxy mines broken for a month now.
Maxes underpowered comparatively
Magrider = joke comparatively

From my experience VS need some help. Why the devs created a faction they are biased against is about as ******** as it gets, and company leadership should fire these indviduals for cutting into profits.

Indeed, looking at spreadsheets only tell half the story. Recoil for example is something learn with each gun, COF/Bloom or whatnot is something you can't learn. Bloom per bullet is highest for VS in ADS, even more so if consider bullets per magazine, because then you realise a VS player must be able to hit with more bullets than TR and NC. More than TR due to generally 10 less bullets, and more than NC due to causing less damage. We do get better hipfire and have no bullet drop, which are useful things to have though the former is much more important than the latter.

NC/TR seem to take a lot of their advantages for granted though. The most painfully obvious being the whole Orion QQ when they get the MSW-R with advanced laser sights. Lost count on how many times I get slaughtered by this one, VS on the other hand get the Polaris as their CQC LMG yet it has a ROF of 652. Not exactly the best characteristics of a CQC LMG but it is, however, a great all around weapon. Making it a very tactical choice, and fited with grip/comp it is probably the most accurate LMG across the board(but only 143dmg per bullets so sorry all you guys who want to find the next VS weapon to cry OP at).

TL DR; I like my VS weapons too. I think it is more the current state of the magrider that made VS players go "F*** that..." Not because of MBT vs MBT balance but because of cam/wired guided rockets and lock on launchers being everywhere. What does all these have incommon? They completely negate the magrider's mobility advantage. It isn't hard to hit because there is no aiming required anymore. What's left? A less than average MBT which is easy to hit.

Warpgate position... that is all.

Give VS a lightsaber, maybe that would make them more popular.

I personally just don't like the look of the gear or the sound of the guns, so underwhelming.

They also suffer from being the "average" the other due are put against. TR > here NC > there

Like humans in other MMO, no one wants to be average, they want to excel at something and well the magrider isn't what it use to be, even though its still my favorite tank (i play NC).

New outfits, new gun sounds they sure don't need more OP ness.

Wow. Dead wrong. Hardly worth replying, but someone out there might accidentally read this and think it's correct. Some of us play two or even all three classes, and we can tell a clear difference, at least right now. I'm sure it will change (VS was a little OP back at the end of last year, IMHO), but please don't just spew this stuff out - particularly when the math and the experience both indicate otherwise.

The numbers mean nothing, look at the colored lines! Cats and dogs are living and sleeping together!

Very interesting statistics in the link, thank you. The statistic I'd like to see is the number of hours played by faction (instead of number of players).

Another factor is player experience. NC seems to be winning most of the new players, which could mean more noobs playing on their side, that's hardly and advantage for now.

I play TR in Cobalt, where NC are the largest faction and TR the smallest. However I don't remember NC capping Indar, even when they had the north gate. Vanu on the other side capped Indar shortly after the last warpgate rotation and didn't lose the bonus yet.

On Saturday there was a combined TR & NC effort to gang on the VS in Indar and remove the bonus. We're getting orders not to attack the NC and go for the VS in the command chanel, but even 65% against 35% we could not do it... numbers are not everything.

You mean math like this?




Math does not agree with you and others that say VS is underpowered.

Yeah make everything vs has 1.6 times better than the TR equivalent so they can warpgate TR every night with no effort and feel good about themselves.

I don't know how it is on other servers but there is no shortage of VS on mattherson. They had 80 % population on indar early this morning. I understand that is not prime time, but during prime time hours the last couple weeks there have been many evenings when they have 60% population on Indar. Indar, you know the one continent with enough people that percentages like that are a HUGE number.

These numbers come from the warp terminal. Which gives totally different numbers than the map screen . However in my experience the warp terminal numbers are much more accurate.

Uh, no. Those are statistics. Without the associated algorithms defining how they're applicable to the current discussion (not to mention how they were gathered, what slips through the cracks and, most importantly, what mitigating factors aren't represented at all), they're basically useless to support anything other than a blanket 'all is well' position. Not really what's being discussed, which is much more to do with the perceived experience, as opposed to the raw numbers. I've got an active player in each faction. So do many others here. That doesn't have much to do with the fact that, at least on Watterson, if you're a VS, everywhere you go it's 3 against 1 or your ghost capping.

Probably relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Lie_with_Statistics

Quit yapping and play each faction for a day or two, and you'll see what we're talking about. Maybe.

A common trend in PS1 was that every time VS wasn't overpowered they were the lowest populated faction... In its simplest form I'd say its because most 13 year old CoD kiddies are more likely to pick the Red or Blue faction over the Purple one unless its got an advantage.

I'm not saying the current issues with VS being underpowered in many areas isn't a factor but it isn't the only reason.

Quick fix: Make Lasher OP, worked everytime in PS1

Been there, done that. VS is well represented on Helios where I play as NC, TR is actually the 3rd faction on Helios. My TR alt is on Connery, where VS is the 3rd faction there. My VS alt is on Mattherson where VS do quite well there. But even with factions that have low world population representation, on Indar it's usually 33/33/33 which is dead even and balanced during primetime. Many people out there don't understand how continent population works. There's a cap that you can't exceed, so no matter how many NC, TR, or VS you cram into a server, a continent will always allow the same number of players. So VS may be outnumbered in world population, it does not mean they are outnumbered on Indar where majority of the server have population capped.

But then I think you just found out your own problems. You talk based on your experience on one server where a faction may be greatly outnumbered, but that same experience does not necessarily apply to other servers. I think it's you that needs to quit yapping and assuming you know everything.

p.s. If you don't like hard statistics that show average kills, scores, deaths, vehicle kills per hour, then please, by all means, show us something else. So far I've only heard yapping from the opposing side, no real statistics that show VS is underpowered.

VS is IMO, the most balanced faction. The only thing underpowered about your faction is your spandex.

Look at the scale on that graph.

Statistics can be used to imply anything. While the trend is down, likely because the massively, massively overpowered magrider was balanced to match the other MBTs, and the VS simultaneously got moved to the bad gate on Indar in the same patch, the delta between the largest data points is a little over 3%.

In other words, over such a short timescale it doesn't really say much.

Personally I blame Reddit and the various MLP outfits, who would want to share a faction with those types of people?

Actually we already know that neither the magrider nor the warpgate had any real effect on the VS population. The magrider was revelted to pretty much where it was before the nerfs and the VS hold now the best Indar warpgate. The population trend still remains downwards though despite that.

I say no Long reloads. Cause WTF, the guy just moves slower?

The best for mobility and Infantry farming( I think, I never use it) but not good for many tank battles.

Lots of factors contribute to the current reduction in VS players, but the general problem is one of inconsistency when it comes to the logic behind VC gear & equipment, as compared to the other two factions.

Magrider is supposedly so good because it is so agile and has 'no drop'. In the current game, proliferation of lock-on launchers and other anti-vehicle weaponry has rendered that agility moot, and the torque buff gave the other faction MBTs almost as much agility as the mag - more in some cases since the magrider is so slow when compared to the others. Savvy Prowler/Vanguard drivers can zip in & out of cover just as easily as the mag can, and their weapon projectile speeds make for excellent accuracy. The mag in comparison has some of the slowest projectiles in the game: the saron has been so nerfed that firing it feels like shooting a sponge out of the turret, and it now has a half-second prefire delay, making it hard to use on a moving target even at close ranges. All the mag's driver guns have arcing projectiles, still very slow and easy to dodge. Mags kill dumb (i.e. immobile) tanks all the time, but have problems hitting moving opponents, especially fast ones. Add in the driver awareness issue and the fact that the much vaunted magburner only propels the tank forward (assuming the driver was dumb enough to fit it over smoke), forcing the tank to turn its back on its enemy to get away, and you've got a pretty lame MBT, all told. It's fine for the TR to have wicked fast projectiles, it's fine for the NC to have a shield, but it's apparently not fine for VS lasers to be lasers. The mag's agility is now no greater than the other two and, in many cases, worse.

Bullet drop is an irrelevance for all factions at most common infantry engagements ranges (with the possible exception of the NC, but even they learn to deal with it), and the one area in which it would be useful - sniping - VS bullets suddenly get drop! So the VS get no bullet drop - except for snipers and MBT driver cannons, when it would be useful. The NC don't get strong bullets that only work for five out of the six classes, and the TR don't get really big clips only on five out of six classes. Not only that, but VS damage degradation is a very real issue at mid-range, where their accuracy is supposed to be helping them, so once again the VS come out at the bottom of the pile.

The scythe is agile, but it's not fast, and it has the biggest top down profile of any of the ESFs, making it easy meat in any dogfight. I'm not sure, but I'm led to believe that the VS pods are inferior to the others as well (something about having to fire in twos?).

VS is the only faction to which the logic that is applied consistently to the other factions is applied inconsistently. This has been most evident in the new ESRLs. It's very very bad for the VS to have a weapon that would insta-kill infantry with no warning, but it's perfectly fine for the NC to have one. It would be very bad for the VS weapon to have high alpha-strike, but it's perfectly fine for a single Striker to bring an ESF almost to burning. The VS advantage is no bullet drop - except when they're not allowed it. The VS advantage is agility, except that the other two mbts are now just as agile, with better weapons and better abilities.

There is **** all going for the VS right now. They're putting up a valiant fight, but they've been on the losing end since the mag nerf, and it's just getting worse.