Entire platoon rage quit from Phoenix spam

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Tanelorn, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Zar

    they also didn't one shot inf in ps1 if they did they were balanced don't remember if they ever did one shot but if they did this is even more ******** lol do people not learn from history anymore? Devs have a cheat sheet for what worked and what didn't why they can't use it is unknown maybe the teacher is watching quick someone make a loud noise so they can look at ps1 !
  2. Accuser

    Here's the problem:
    They're giving the weapons PS1's power and versatility but they aren't giving vehicles PS1's durability and timers.

    EDIT:
    For those that didn't know, Phoenix could 3-shot MAXes... but took like 5 hits to kill infantry.
    • Up x 1
  3. FreelancePanic

    Except we don't have PS1's vehicle cert requirements which causes vehicles to become ubiquitous.
  4. Colt556

    Nothing really one-shot anything in PS1, the TTK on everything was MUCH longer. But doesn't really matter. If you can't hit the enemy you can't one-hit kill them, now can you? So if infantry had plenty of cover, it would make hitting them with the phoenix exceptionally difficult, no different than any other weapon.
  5. Brusilov [TR]

  6. Brusilov [TR]

    Thats wouldnt help things at all! If sunderers had cloaks, Phoenix's would be MORE OP in the deirction of NC. The other two empires don't have a remote tv scouting device, to search for cloaked Sunders :p
  7. Colt556

    Different =/= overpowered. That's something players need to learn, unlikely as it may be. That has always been, and always will be the benefit of the Phoenix. It can be used as a scouting tool. The other factions get their benefits too. Lancers get to be an insane anti-tank sniper rifle (yes I know, SOE screwed up it's implementation). The striker gets to be the only lock-on weapon in the game that can ignore flares and really be the only lock-on rocket that ignores all forms of anti-lock-on mechanics.

    The other two empires get their own unique traits in the form of more offensive power. The NC get a non-combat side-effect in that they can use their rocket launcher for limited scouting. It's not overpowered, it's different.
  8. Mxiter

    I agree that vehicles (especially tanks) will soon need an HP buff, i mean... it's a tank!! :D
    ESF could be fine as glass canons.
  9. Mxiter

    Strikers are actually sensitive to flares and smoke...
    Infanty farm was OP for an infantry AV weapons.
    Phoenix will need an AA improvement to perform as well as others ESRL and will be fine until it can sout, can be fired from cover, can hit behind cover and deals decent damages
  10. Colt556

    I have long been an advocate for making MBTs much rarer and much stronger. But that, like most intelligent design decisions, is something SOE will never allow.

    Only if you're an idiot, to be honest. Fire one rocket, they pop flares, unload the other four. You are now the bane of every aircraft in the sky. Smoke is, well, I suppose that one can screw with the striker. But then, can't expect the striker to be a guaranteed hit weapon now can we, gotta give tankers some way to survive.
  11. iRhuel

    Sorry, I paraphrased abit. But just to be clear, yes, you do sound that ridiculous.
  12. Mxiter

    As striker user, i can tell you that it's not so easy, especially agaist air where the windows is very close:
    The triker have 2.5 sec to lock + 3 sec to fire all its rockets. If the aircraft exeed 500m, the missiles have 3 sec to hit its target or would be dumbfire. Tanks arn't so easy to lock if they use the ground ho hide them lower hull and avooid the lock.
    All that with the striker's operator 80% exposed because it have to aim, to fire and then keep locking its target to guide the missiles

    It's slightly overperforming, i agree,like all ESRL will do when "balanced" but since they didn't fix the vehicles spam, AV weapons will always be powerful...
  13. Kubor

    The Phoenix has not been nerfed it has been fixed.

    The AV buff is warranted. It is now a proper AV weapon. TR and VS will adapt and adopt new tactics once we've finished crying about how good the Phoenix is at AV (which is a good sign that it's balanced).

    The Phoenix is a real pain when it comes to trying to set up Sunderers. It's now a nightmare to the hordes of deployed Prowlemmings and point and click Magriders of doom that have been rampaging around Auraxis for months. The Striker is absolutely horrible to fly against. I'm glad I'm primarily TR in that respect.

    The Lancer is...interesting.

    In a nutshell. We all have new things to play with and to defend against. We went through all of this in PS1 every time something new was introduced. Who could possibly forget the introduction of the PS1 Liberator? We need to learn and adapt instead of crying.

    I might actually buy a Lancer now to see what it's like.
  14. Pat Cleburne


    Were you running with my outfit on Mattherson? Because we were on Esamir fighting at the traverse tonight and that exact thing happened. It happened at other areas too, but things built up over the course of the night and the phoenix spam at the traverse made people so mad they quit playing, so we disbanded the platoon for the night. Those rockets were the straw that broke the camels back I guess you'd say.

    It was bad enough that TR were outnumbered on 2/3 continents, but the difference on Esamir was sickening.
    We only had 1 platoon and tried to fight it out, but there was literally an endless stream of phoenix rockets flying at us destroying every tank and sundy we had.
    [IMG]
  15. Colt556

    I saw ridiculous to you because you can't wrap your head around the possibility that just because something is broken doesn't mean it really is. See, this is a wonderful part of game design. Something may be horribly broken yet perfectly balanced at the same time. Seems odd, right? But that's because things don't operate in a vacuum. The Phoenix isn't "clearly better", it's not overpowered, it's not broken. It's perfectly balanced and is working as intended. The reason it is broken and overpowered while not being (this is some Schrodinger **** going on here) is because of the way it interacts with everything else. It being able to one-hit kill infantry is perfectly acceptable, it's a rocket that glues the player in place. It's not that maneuverable, has a very poor range, and is generally hard to aim. It's only because there is NO bloody cover in this game that it becomes overpowered. Hitting enemies that are standing in a wide open field is easy with any weapon.

    So the Phoenix itself is balanced, the world around it isn't. As I have explained in several posts already. You get these kind of paradox's in game design, and truthfully I don't fault you for not understanding, it's simple and obvious to me but I have worked on games for a while. For someone who hasn't actually participated in game design it can be very confusing. But suffice it to say, if they gave sunderer's a cloak, as they should have done, and put more cover for infantry, as they should have done. And made a few other changes that need to be made regardless, the phoenix would be fine.

    My overall point is that sometimes something being "overpowered" isn't because it is just broken, it's because everything else is broken. Sometimes that's just the case with games. And when that is the case you have two choices, you can take the quick and easy route and nerf the "op" weapon. Or you can fix the root cause which ALWAYS fixes a number of other issues as well. If you've noticed other topics on the forums, you'll note my fixes for the phoenix also fix other things such as infantry getting farmed by tanks or sunderers dying to lone suicide engis. Without having to nerf anything.
  16. Copasetic

    That may be true, but you can't expect everyone to just deal with it for the next 3 months while they do all that. There's not even any sign that they are working to put in a Sundy cloak, or more infantry cover. In the short term if the weapon is unbalanced regardless of the reason it should be adjusted, then once those external factors are fixed you can think about rebuffing it.

    Note: I'm not saying the Phoenix is unbalanced, I'd like to see how it plays with the latest changes first.
  17. Colt556

    Oh, believe me, I know they wont properly fix the phoenix. Because to fix the phoenix is to fix serious issues that have been here since beta. It really wouldn't take them that long to do it though, if they wanted to. Throwing trees and rocks around doesn't take that long, and I can't imagine making a bubble effect around a deployed sundy to render it invisible would take that long either.

    In the end, I'm not saying what will be done to fix it. I'm just saying what should be done. The phoenix is just another symptom caused by problems that have been here since beta. More things will be added that also suffer from these problems. It's an endless cycle of treating the symptoms and not the cause directly.
  18. Wintermaulz

    Im all well too familiar with PS1 cloaking system. Mainly ran around as a cloaker myself.
  19. Colt556

    Then you'd know that it worked, and work even better in PS2 due to no darklight. If they just added something without half-assing it, most of these problems wouldn't even exist. If they implemented the AMS cloak properly, that would solve a lot of problems right there, including phoenixes.
  20. Wintermaulz

    Did i ever say it wouldn't work? All i said that if it was implemented with the cloaking system they have right now, it wouldn't be any good. I would absolutely love SOE if they made cloaking like it was in PS1. Make no dought about that