Entire platoon rage quit from Phoenix spam

I ran with another outfit platoon tonight because I was unable to join mine on Indar. We were working on Esamir at the traverse. Lots of resistance, mostly troops. What was the unwaivering noise we all heard as we fought for a good half hour there? NC Phoenixes, an endless rain of Phoenixes. And how many enemies did we actually see? About a dozen or two. The rest, far more, were all hiding behind terrain and structures, keeping all incoming forces at bay.

Now, Im not saying the Phoenix is OP, but it is definitely demoralizing. Its simply not possible to keep sunderers alive when they can be hit behind cover by an enemy behind cover. If a force is unable to surround an enemy to remove their directional cover advantage, Phoenixes are a huge force magnifier.

After a half hour of not being able to press in, and not having any Phoenix-proof cover for sunderers, the platoon simultaneously called it a night (and called Phoenix users a thing or two as well).

In my opinion after seeing them used so much, I lean towards Phoenixes being OP. They truly are more powerful than the numbers tell, because of the TV guidance. I really doubt that the Striker and Lancer have been adopted to the extent that the Phoenix has. I think the Phoenix should be more of a specialty weapon than the mainstay, but it really does seem to be a common AV weapon for the NC now. Im a PS1 vet so I know this IS what the NC had then, but I think the usage numbers are telling and perhaps the Phoenix isn't balanced for PS2 yet.

Lol they're unlimited! So why not!

My thoughts:
http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...-solution-to-all-your-rocket-problems.110167/

Missiles should cost resources, at least 20 - spam problem solved

Yet you are TR who can rain hell down Tank zergs with the Striker.

As per usual with PS2, it's not the phoenix that's the problem. Truthfully, most problems in PS2 are problems because of something else. It's a butterfly effect. The Phoenix itself really is perfectly balanced. The problem is other things, for example, sunderers not getting an AMS cloak. In PS1 phoenix's didn't insta-gib every AMS because they couldn't FIND every AMS. They were cloaked. Yet on PS2 sundies stand out like sore thumbs and are easily spotted by anything in the sky. If sunderers had cloaks, phoenix's wouldn't be anywhere near overpowered against them.

Same applies to infantry. The phoenix, lancer, and even the striker should be able to kill infantry. They're ******* rockets. A fully charged lancer should one-shot a soldier. A phoenix should one-shot a soldier. A couple striker missiles should kill a soldier. The problem here is everything in PS2 is too ******* open. There is no cover, anywhere. In PS1 there was a lot more cover, trees, rocks, stuff like that. On PS2 there's just ******* nothing. The phoenix missile isn't that maneuverable. If there's a rock between you and your enemy, he aint gonna hit you with a phoenix rocket. But since there never is any cover, since every single fight involves you running through the open, you're just fodder for them.

So, as usual, the problem isn't that the phoenix is broken. It's that sony insists on half-assing every implementation of PS1 features.

Interesting, because I've never seen this post from him before. I'm just going to go ahead and say the problem is the phoenix.

Good try though.

Having had to lead a balance team for a Halo1 PC modding team (we created a really popular halo 1 mod that made it more tactical and included recoil) I can assure you that the post below is 100% correct. A no-deploy circle around a base will make sense, and cloaking for the AMS for compensation. Would help make amp stations/tech plants much more formidable bases to attack.

Ok, explain to me how the problem is the phoenix? Would it slaughter sunderers if they could cloak? Would it be anti-infantry sniper rifles if infantry had cover?

Players like you are so quick to go "OVERPOWERED! NERF!", you trim the branches without looking down and noticing the root is rotten. All that is going to happen, with all three ESRL, is that they are nerfed into uselessness. All because of players like you who just jump on the bandwagon and look to treat the symptoms, not the disease.

this is what its made to do, its going to be nerfed against infantry but its not going to change against vehicles except destoy them more quickly. Zerg is still the answer, cause i will tell you all those phoenix groups suck at close range so get in and get moving, last night we was over taken by a zerg from vanu and i probably killed 50 or more with a pheonix but they still took over the base.

problem is you was facing a decent size force, cause one small group 2-4 spamming pheonix wouldnt really take this down unless they stay focused on killing it, other than that where was your peeps moving up to kil them . The vanu even though suffered hard losses at the archieves last night took us out. I guess its a patience thing now. we will see how the changes handle things.

since infantry wont be getting dropped so easy, doesnt mean a Pheonix cant kill infantry but since they wont be getting one shotted i believe the normal infantry rush will be effective but keping that sunderer up is going to still require work

Unless it was a perfect cloak, sundys would still stick out like a sore thumb, only not to aircraft wipping by at 100+ KPH

I love how people are like its a damn rocket it should one shot infantry. I would like to remind you that the prowler is a damn TANK!!

As I said, half-***** implementations of PS1 features. In PS1, if you were stationary with a cloak, it was perfect, 100% invisible. That worked for personal cloaks, AMS cloaks, and Phantasm cloaks. Since AMS' were stationary, they were completely invisible. This changed as you got closer. If you were within a couple meters of the cloaking field, you could see the shimmer of the cloak, that's how people found AMS. But until then it's 100% invisible. So these phoenix users would have to get their rocket within 5 meters of your sunderer to find it, and in a game as big as PS2 that's far easier said than done.

You're NC. Why even waste my time? You've already made up your mind.

Oh and I never said nerf anything did I? The phoenix is what caused the pot to boil over and made his team rage quit. Pretty simple to figure out as long as you are on the other side of the fence.

Im Nc only one I play and Im not buying a phoenix they aint that special

Always with the "ur nc that makes u wrong!" But by all means, go check my profile. There's a nifty site for it. Same name as my forum name. Check to see if I have ever even used a phoenix.

Shocking to believe, but not everybody just defends broken toys. You're doing exactly what you accuse me, only reversed. It's the enemy's toy so you want it changed. I'm not like that. I truthfully don't even really care about PS2, it's a broken mess and will never be fixed. But as a game designer I look at things and see how they could, and should, be balanced. I don't use the phoenix, it doesn't benefit me. I don't get xp if someone takes a phoenix to the face. I don't get certs. I get nothing. Them being broken does not benefit me in any way, shape or form. So why would I defend them? Well, I'd defend them if they WEREN'T broken. The phoenix is a symptom, a symptom of bad base design, of bad map design, of bad mechanics. It's a symptom, and if all you do is treat the symptoms you'll never cure the disease.

Instead of changing the phoenix, change other things. Give sunderers a cloak like we've been asking for since beta. Plant down more trees, rocks, debris, anything to give infantry more cover. As I said, it's players like you that ruin this game. You, and people like you, just nerf the things that you deem overpowered without looking at WHY they are overpowered.

No worries: Phoenix's AI nerf coming soon

Source: Twitter

You mean like buff the other 2 MBT's instead of nerfing the magrider? That kind of thing?

No VS or TR will lose sleep if you can't farm infantry anymore.

Darn. If only there was a way to somehow kill a handful of guys with AN ENTIRE PLATOON. Well...if they have Phoenixes I guess it's completely impossible.

It's sad, and truly telling of PS2s fate, that people are happy about this. Nerf. Nerf. Nerf. Nerf. Everything gets nerfed. Magriders op, nerf them, don't buff the other two tanks to match. Rocketpods op, nerf them, don't give infantry cover to protect them. Libs op, nerf them, don't bother giving more reliable AA defenses. It's always nerfs. Instead of nerfing something, change other things so that it's no longer in need of a nerf.

As you can see above, yes, that exact type of thing. Most things in PS2 aren't overpowered, they just don't mix well with other elements because, for some reason unknown to me, sony has nobody on their dev team that can go "huh, giving ESFs a dozen rockets that have massive splash radius and damage and can kill a soldier in two shots is a bit overpowered"

Instead of nerfing things, we should make changes so that they are no longer overpowered, and no longer require a nerf. If you go around nerfing everything into the ground you end up with a very bland and boring game. You end up with a dead game.

working as intended L2P
also learn to burst strafe(you know how u told nc to learn to burst fire)

now i almost know what it was like to prowler farm infintry, i can even drink coffee while i snipe with the phoenix.