Infiltrator needs rework or team-oriented improvement

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Lausk, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Lausk

    I couldn't help but notice that a developer told someone if they had issues with the inf then post it on the forums so here we go.

    Infiltrator needs significantly new features in order to place it as a valuable and unique tool over other traditional squad roles.

    Currently the most useful classes are:
    Heavy Assault - for killing... anything

    Medic - Reviving heavy assaults and teammates

    Engineer - Giving ammo back to heavy assaults and to drive/repair the schoolbus

    At this point you have to work hard to wedge the other 3 classes into the current triumverate that dominates.
    MAX - important for situations like CQC or air defense, though this can be replaced by enough people using annihilators- Anti-vehicle role is lacking where the heavy assault thrives. NC max is the only truely effective max that can turn a fight around or work effectively as point defense in CQC situations. Decimal TTK times.

    Light Assault - useful for infiltrating enemy bases that have distinct geographical obstacles, but burns out quickly w/o a resupply for their C4 gold, and ammo from their engineer. Heavy assault is hardier at killing enemies and can also dispatch vehicles AND aircraft. Engineer tank mine suiciding is also effective against entrenched sunderers. Like the MAX, LA lacks squad supporting abilities and is quickly cut out of squads.

    Infiltrator - In long range battles, a few good snipers can mop up foot zerg, but are often not effective enough to keep enemies in spawn. Can place effective claymore traps, but so can the engineer. Has the ability to ghostcap or prep bases for capture with their unique hack ability. Can make the most of knifing by using cloaking device, but still the cloak makes a very loud sound that instantly reveals your presence to anyone not in major combat. Less armor makes the INF more risky, and quick thinking is required to pull wins out of 1v1s against other classes.

    ------------
    I am primarily infiltrator and of course have bias but I believe a infiltrator played well is the most rewarding, dynamic, and exciting. I'm sure many of you have had great situations where the odds were stacked against you but your cunning put you on top, and often those situations are rare with other classes except maybe light assault.

    Generally the infiltrator right now is a great class to play by yourself, and needs more tools, and perhaps upgrades to current abilities that will seat them as a valuable asset to any squad.

    Hacking:
    Currently hacking serves a great support role: It allows you to turn enemy terminals and turrets so that you and your teammates can utilize them while invading an enemy base. This creates situations where if an engineer is dead, you can resupply, pull an engineer or medic to rez the engineer; its essentially your base away from base and is a second wind to small attacks and in some situations large attacks.

    I think hacking can be taken further and I think a lot of people agree with me. In PS1 hacking gave you the ability to open locked doors, hijack enemy vehicles, and was even the main mechanic for capturing bases. We really need to see the return of this kind of gameplay because it is extremely vital to adding variety to gameplay. Shield right now are the main way that people are kept out of bases and areas, and I think hacking could be implemented as either a way to make shields passable on foot, or I wouldn't mind if they added doors to certain places like towers so you could be important for getting your team into flank positions that are normally inaccessible.

    The potential for hacking in this game is being critically overlooked.

    Radar Gun - A great idea and voiced by maggie over FNO as a very powerful tool that is under-utilized. There are a few reasons why it is underused and rumors as well about how this tool functions if it functions at all.

    Right now you shoot the dart and it is supposed to reveal enemy locations within it's radius. I heard the rate that this occurs is about 3 second intervals. This needs to be tested more. People don't submit bug reports because they are not confident that this is a bug or they're not using the tool correctly. Rumor states that the projectile has to have line of sight on the enemy in order to track them. This can be quite absurd if you're trying to breach an unknown structure as there are very rarely situations where there is distinct line of sight to be utilized. Most bases are keenly designed so that people have places to hide, windows to shoot from, and places where they won't be sniped to death. This creates a huge obstacle that regardless of how much sensor range you have, it won't work correctly.

    This tool needs to be able to detect through walls consistently, AND if they're in line of sight, reveal an arrow direction on the map. If no arrow on the map then maybe an IFF popup as if they were spotted because face it, infiltrators should be the best at spotting and surveiling. Better yet, let the projectile also be a portable camera that you can use to scout ahead with. Find out where people are lurking- your team needs this information or often they have to rely on room clearing techniques to get the job done, and these techniques are not foolproof.

    One other idea I had is since the back tip of the gun looks like some kind of camera lense... let it work like a set of thermal binoculars with a very long vision drop of range, that way an infiltrator using close quarters gear can plot out where enemies are moving. Binocular-type gear has been very useful for games like crysis where it was important to know the lay of the land before you go stumbling in and get yourself spotted.

    Once again, potential is under-utilized.

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    I think at this point it would be great to hear what you guys thought about the infiltrator, and what's missing that should help this class become a chosen staple in squad loadouts.
    • Up x 6
  2. Lausk

  3. FateJH

    I don't think I'd mind giving Infiltrators a cert tree that allows them to do stuff while cloaked, or actually just giving them something closer to actually being invisibility regardless of what graphics settings their opponents are using.
  4. Dark-Odin

    What I'd like to add is the fact the Infilitrator isn't rewarded for what it does yet every other class with a form of support is, you get little experience points for hacking nevermind limiting how many terminals/turrets will give you experience after you've hacked a few, you literally can't hack an entire tower and recieve max points from those places. I can understand they don't want an infil to just gain like thousand of points by hacking empty bases however this is counter productive. So I agree this class needs re-working.
  5. Primetimer

    For goodness sake, just give us C-4.
    • Up x 4
  6. icesail

    I am sorry, the medic class took you C4. Why does a infiltrator need C4 anyway, can't you just hack the Sandy anyway?

    >end sarcasm<
    • Up x 2
  7. robotron2000

    Indeed.

    Anything that would allow Infiltrators to actually, you know, do some infiltration, I'm all for. A lot of Infiltrators sit on a hill as far away as they can, sniping at people who stray into their sights. It doesn't give them many certs, and neither should it because it's the least useful thing you can do in PS2. You kill a couple of people, so what? You can kill a lot more with other guns and perform useful tasks at the same time with all the other classes.

    Give the Infilitrators tools that allow them to live up to their name, so those that want to help the war effort can do something useful and be rewarded for it.
  8. Wintermaulz

    What about a suit cert, unique to the class (like adrenalin rush for LA, or more rocket ammo for HA) that makes melee a OHK from the back?
  9. icesail

    Just give us the Adrenalin pump from LA. They already can fly, being able to run faster is just over kill.
    Gives us a level 1 drifter jetpack. Tired of killing myself trying to get down from cliffs.
    • Up x 2
  10. Zan_Aus

    Two things would radically bolster the Infiltrator class without breaking them is to a) improve the functionality of the radar gun (and by default improve the mini-map which is half the problem) and b) perhaps consider letting them hack terminals while stealth is up would encourage more mid-fight base infiltration.

    The other night I felt like a true infiltrator when we were attacking a Tower that was half populated. The enemy had the turrets manned and were pumping out vehicles. I managed to sneak all the way in ahead of our main column of tanks arriving, hacked all the turrets, killed each user, hacked all the aircraft terminals and one of the gun terminals and led the defenders on a chase through the base to kill me. No one on my team had the slightest idea but it sure slowed their defense a lot.

    Infi and LA certainly have more of those fulfilling moments than the other classes.
    • Up x 2
  11. Zanduh

    I think cloaks and infiltration need to be buffed

    However
    An infiltrator SHOULD NOT be able to hack a turret you are currently occupying.
  12. Lausk

    I think adrenaline rush is nice because you then have the option of running faster than most of the people you're trying to stab in the back. Forgetting the fact that you should run faster anyway because you're wearing less armor *scoff*.

    Its true though, infiltrators do not get a lot of points for things they should.

    Few examples:
    Don't get consistent points for spotting

    No assist points gained from damaging/removing shield with EMP grenade.

    Hacking too much, ie doing your job too much gives no points.

    No points earned from enemies dieing while revealed by your sensor dart (if it decides to work).

    --
    Imagine a medic who stops getting points for reviving... wth.

    Points would be nice for people using your hacked equipment. So if someone resupplies from a hacked terminal, you should get a point bonus for that because face it, you're the reason they are receiving support.
  13. Aliasse

    As a infiltrator I provide the following task...
    - Update my team on enemy positions.
    - Infiltrate a base and cause havoc.
    - Hack Consoles & pull sunderers
    - Disable and provide random decoy/diversions.
  14. Lausk

    - No points, and any other class can do that job
    - Not team oriented, a group of medics would probably be better at this than a group of infs
    - Probably one of the only thing an infiltrator is good for IF the eng forgets to bring the sundy
    - Only viable in very small opposition situations, which is uncommon to planetside. And infiltrators can only hack not -disable-

    The work your talking about is almost charity. Using most other classes would work equally and get tripple so hope you like being shortchanged.
    • Up x 1
  15. Wobberjockey

    infiltrators are only good at one thing.

    long range, precision, infantry elimination.

    everyother class can do anything we can do better.

    and sadly picking off an enemy X at long range is generally pointless in the grand scheme of the battle
    • Up x 2
  16. Mustarde

    OP makes a nice balanced post - it points out some issues without sounding like another whine thread (of which there are MANY in the infiltrator forum).

    We desperately need c4 or tank mines (i'm fine with just c-4). It's insulting that every other class can use them, and therefore have a way to deal with vehicles. If I come across a lone magrider, all I can do is cloak up, run away and pray he doesn't use thermal/IR. I don't think C4 would break the game or ruin balance.

    I'd love to see more hacking options, as well as more XP for hacking. If it really is as important as some posters have implied, why only 25xp per hack? Even with hacking maxed out I still die frequently when attempting to hack a terminal, as I stand there exposed next to a big glowing screen. Sure it is useful to my outfit when we are hitting a small base but overall it is very unsatisfying.

    I'm eager to see how SMG's affect our class. Right now we are sorely lacking in CQC ability. I would never expect to be able to stand toe to toe with a heavy, or any other class for that matter, but our best choice, the full auto scout rifle, is only marginally better than our pistol! And the TR pistol has more rounds!

    Sniping can be very strong, but something you guys should realize before thinking that this strength means we don't need more options/abilities... it is VERY difficult to shoot a moving target, at any range. Especially if you are in a bolt-action. Sure, I land a few and mop up the dummies standing still but being a good sniper requires great skill, luck, planning and persistence. Give us an ability to reduce scope sway for example. Ditch the 100 cert forward grip for bolt actions that I'm pretty sure cannot possibly improve the gun.

    Other optional things - make EMP grenades more useful, recon darts last longer... consider tweaking our reflective cloak. (This last point could take up several forum threads, and does, so I won't elaborate further), add an ability to climb surfaces to allow for better positioning.

    TL:DR - Give us c4, ability to cert increased breath holding, more things to hack and I think the class will remain balanced but much more useful.
    • Up x 2
  17. Crywalker

    One thing they should do, IMO, to make HAs a little less dominant in combat, is higher clip and ammo counts for non-LMGs. Dying due to having to reload is not fun, and a HA jumping around with shield popped can simply spam at you while you've somehow got to put him down with 30 well placed shots. Also, LA sucks with only 150 ammo since they're not the kind of class you stick around and ammo box or resupply with, and the ammo belt comes at the expense of survivability and is rather expensive cert wise. Engi it's sort of a non-issue. For infils, it depends on what you're doing. A sniper can camp ammo boxes, but a hacker/CQC sort has the same issue as LA.

    TR has 40 clip carbines w/200 ammo pool which seems about right. Not sure about AR balance since I don't play medic anymore except to heal myself at a resupply.
  18. Crywalker

    Actually spotting does give points. Not amazing points but over time I'm sure it still adds up.
    Hacking can also be amazing if you manage to get an AV turret behind a line of tanks, or to make a daring attempt at placing a sunderer inside/very close to an enemy base. I admit I don't get much use out of it unless I'm really committed to using it for a very specific purpose, and even then sometimes it's near impossible to use when you really need to use it. Trying to infiltrate a base that's being defended is asking to get shot down by someone with IR/NV, someone who notices your not quite invisible body, or even just hit by random damage near choke points.
  19. drNovikov

    Also, radar gun should not emit idiotic disclosing beeps that every enemy can hear. It is an infiltretor tool, not an enemy's alarm.
    • Up x 1
  20. Bambolero

    All of you underestimate the hacking ability and how usefull it actually is.
    And to the C4 dreamers, keep dreaming...
    Give a vehicle destroying tool to an invis class? Yeah that not OP at all and will happen lol, you just wait...