RAWR! Another Vanu is OP thread!!!

Yes, I am a nerd for giving my experienced opinion. What are you worth? Just a garbage troll. The advantages the Scythe has on the other two make it superior flying in the air. It's shape, weapons, brakes and how well it handles with no upgrades. Cool.

Magrider is hands down the best tank.

I'd kind of rather the vanguard and especially prowler receive some buffs to bring them up to the magrider level.

All points that prove my own point. It's a pancake from the top, it's just as hard as a mossie to hit from other angles, "it's weapons"?? really? brakes. fine. But no upgrades? youre complaining about all the BR1 pilots out there?

Get a grip man. You and your kind wont be happy until each faction has a single class and vehicle to choose from, both a boring olive drab color and armed with the exact same weapon.

I fly around with a 0 cert Scythe killing any Mosquito or Reaver really with hardly any effort only using their pods. Try flying all 3 with nothing invested. How much flying experience do you have in PS2?

they also do the lowest damage out of all the MBT's - the lightning even out-damages the magrider with the same tank weapons (HEAT vs HEAT and AT vs AT)
HE vs HE the magrider does slightly more damage (313dps vs 308dps) than a lightning

enough to know that "any Mosquito or Reaver" is not evidence to prove that the default Scythe is OP, but rather evidence that the opposing pilots were bad, and that if are also arguing that the Scythe's default weapon is OP that you are even more delusional, since they are all equal.

Perhaps you should fly against pilots with a similar skill set, and then use that as proof?

Dual rockets are amazing. I want them over the weak *** Mosquito rockets. More burst damage which is really better in every situation. You must not fly. :\

From this day forth, all Vanu should only spawn the MAX suits. Then nobody will complain about them being OP.

I agree that a mag is a more fearsome opponet than a vanguard and for me it's the strafing ability speed thing. It's really hard to hit. It's armor and damage are fine to me. I can, at some level accept the vanu no bullet drop thing but when it applies to the HA heavy weapon as well... That I can not. Getting sniped from a heavy weapon to the back of my Prowler from a really long distance away on. the. first. try.

Any HA weapon that can harm a prowler and is not lock-on experiences projectile drop. Even VS launchers.

This smells a lot of the "Vanu Heavies OP" thread I just came from. I don't feel like doing too much more math at the moment (Maybe later when someone inevitably gets all rage-ey and stuff lol) but, I can say, that if ALL of our infantry weapons share the same relationships, then our sustained damage is significantly lower than the other two factions. Like, with the LMG's, the NC do 63000 damage over a minute, the TR 62562.5, and the VS a measly 50050. I don't know if you noticed, but generally during most important, heavy firefights, you're shooting for more than a minute at a time (Unless you die a lot, at which point the VS are STILL behind as soon as each faction empties at least 1 mag)

I mean, yeah, magriders can do some wonky things, as can Scythes (Especially in A2G. The extra vertical movement is kinda nice) but I mean, if SOE really did take away all of these advantages (including the ones I didn't mention), we'd have to hope that no fight ever lasted longer than the time it takes us to empty our first clips..... which isn't very long at all lol.

Again, I've only done the HARD math with the starter LMG's, but the rest of our infantry weapons do seem to follow this trend....

Some of the OP's main points are bu||****, but:

The problem with Vanu (and yes their is one) is that their disadvantages are not effective enough. Slightly lower tank HP and slightly less damage does not matter when you are FLYING.

I have seen magriders hovering left to right across cliffs that even my light assault has difficulty getting to.

Same thing applies to the rifles, in almost all of the PS2 battles you want fast reload, good accuracy and high ROF. Vanu ticks all three while no other faction does. Having slightly lower damage at max range is not balanced.

Vanu can defend and they are more than entitled to, but there is a problem when new players on teamspeak with no previous knowledge of the game are asking why the Vanu seem so much harder to kill than the NC.

we all know what happened to NC in beta after whining about OPness of this fraction. On 30 January we (NC) will welcome VS in our club.

where to hell you found a gun that got enough ammo in magazine to fire 1 min? show us your hard math, and dont forget to deal damage you need to hit the target... so add recoil and cof to your calculations.

People keep saying this but, please, take a look at the actual stats.

The difference between the factions are;
NC; Have 200dmg weapons.
TR; Have the only 845RPM side arm in the game. They also have weapons with more bullets per mag in exchange for slightly longer reload.
VS; Have a more progressive damage deg and no bullet drop.

Other than this, the faction's weapons are so similiar they're not much more than reskins.

Vanu quoting individual gun stats gets boring pretty quickly. The pistol as the ROF main for TR? Ughh..like the other guy saying "but wait one of our guns is on par in terms of accuracy so it all must be fine".

Anyone saying that there is not some unbalance is honestly not that observant. It'll be balanced out sooner or later. However much later impacts player numbers o/c.

says the BR 97 guy. what's the matter, couldn't lolpod vs infantry enough?

NC and TR are OP. They kill me WAY more than Vanu do.

The hard math can be found as the third to last post here: http://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...t-out-the-op-vanu-assault-rifles.82923/page-4

Also, I assume that, being a large firefight, all three are backed up by an engineer giving them ammo, as they should be. However, without the engineer, the Vanu STILL do less damage than the rest. In fact, it actually gets WORSE, because they have to stop firing sooner. Also, I didn't take CoF and recoil into consideration, because it's nearly identical between the VS and TR, so if that's a major factor then it effects the TR too and thus nullifies the argument. Plus I would hope that people could compensate for their recoil if they're arguing about this.... (There's a slightly lower CoF increase for Vanu, but they have a higher recoil multiplier. The CoF bloom is the same between Vanu and TR)

*sigh* In all honesty These threads make me.... so sad. It's like everyone thinks that the entire game revolves around one dude and the guy he's shooting, and other such silly scenarios. The reason why I calculated sustained fire damage is because A) It's arguable that it's a more relevant figure due to the nature of the game, and B) Everyone's been throwing out "Look how the VS have the same DPS as the TR!" despite the fact that the VS have to usually reload more often than the TR, which makes them do noticeably less damage. (Even compared to the NC in many cases!)

I suppose I can try once more: For those still arguing about these points, Go get the game's gun data, which can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AuOojvNLMApVdEtIU1NKenEzNzZOSWNaanFqSUVxLWc&gid=12

Next, I want you to calculate exactly how much damage all of the default guns can put out over 60 seconds, INCLUDING the time for reloads (I.E. a solstice empties a single clip in a couple of seconds, and takes 2.2 seconds to reload, meaning it fires a full clip and then reloads in 4-5 seconds)

You will find that Vanu weapons are almost always weaker across the board (NOTE: The reason I say default weapons is because the unlocks all largely have a counterpart in the other factions, I.E. the Serpent is mirrored pretty closely by the NC's GD-7F, which merely exchanges more recoil for a full second off of the reload speed. On top of this, it can be difficult to tell what exactly is a counterpart of what, so it's easier to just compare default loadouts.) Yeah, not all fights are going to last a minute and such, but calculating over a minute is long enough to get a general trend of the gun's overall performance. (Be sure to take the recoil into account if it's significant, but also note that if recoil is becoming a limiting factor, than it most likely begins falling into the opinion/skill level of the player who would be dealing with that recoil, unless you get something like both gun A and B doing equal damage, but A has lower recoil or something)

Yeah, I get it, our first clip is really good compared to everyone else's first clip. But when the heck has a giant base battle ever been decided with a SINGLE CLIP? (Our damage begins falling around the time each faction empties their first clip, or somewhere around there, possibly at our first reload for some guns. In continuation of the LMG example previously, a VS heavy will empty 1 3/4 of their mags and still do less than 1/2 of an NC heavy by the time he empties his first, which is to say, in about 12 seconds)

I mean, come on folks, there's a lot more to the game than 1v1 fights and quick skirmishes with maybe 5 people. Just because a Vanu dude can kill you in 1v1 (And I'm being nice here and assuming that all this whining is correct and the Vanu Accuracy bonus IS more powerful than the RoF and/or mag size bonus the TR gets, since other than those things the two factions have nearly identical gun stats for the most part.....) it does NOT mean he's OP, ESPECIALLY when that same guy goes around in larger firefights doing so much less damage than you that you can kill around THIRTEEN PEOPLE MORE than he can in the course of a single minute.

It's got its strengths. It's got its weaknesses. Yeah, sure, I'll concede that maybe one could be slightly inferior/superior to the others, but not to the point we need to start telling people how "Delusional" they are when the subject in question is such a huge, broad, and generic one. At the very least people can try to back up their claims with more than subjective experiences with some actual verifiable data, instead of personal experiences that can A) be a lie, and B) be completely inaccurate (You think the hit indicator always shows you exactly how many times you've been hit? No, it doesn't. If you're lagging even a little those 3 hits that pinged you may have actually been 6) I can understand if maybe 1 or 2 guns are off and people argue about them being OP, maybe even some parts of classes, but people keep going on about the faction as a whole, and very rarely have I seen anything that WASN'T a personal experience to back it up....

If we're going to argue, at least argue with, you know, facts. This whole "I'm right and if you don't agree with me it's because you're dumb/deluded/a fanboy/whatever" thing is dumb, painful, and makes everyone involved seem silly....

EDIT: I should also mention that my hard math assumes everyone is within range. Outside of range the Vanu loose so very, very hard, and I'm assuming no one is going to argue this, because it's the whole trade off for the no bullet drop thing that everyone seems to know of pretty well.