Valkyrie Cosmetic WIP

Discussion in 'Game Discussion: PlanetSide 2' started by AbstractHero, Jan 18, 2018.

  1. AbstractHero Member

    Greetings to Syrah, and any creators who still visit this forum. Just a newbie here trying my hand at 3D modeling, I might stick around for awhile, let's see if I can get any feedback.

    Cutting right to it.. I'm brainstorming concepts for Valkyrie cosmetics. I know Valk cosmetics are not the money makers of the PlayerStudio, but it seems like all the other categories are overloaded. Although personally this is not about the money, needless to say, sales can be a strong motivation for the developers ;) So again, we'll see if my submission goes anywhere but in the trash, eh? *chuckles*

    My first concept is based on the Valk's use in fast moving squads to arrive first on the scene, being a kind of 'Emergency First Responder'. Showing up to Fight Fire with Fire!
    I've thrown in some [anachronistic] fireman tools into the design :
    • Fire and Rescue Emblem (should probably be made into a decal, I know)
    • Ladder (should probably be shortened so it's not sticking out and needs hanging mounts)
    • Axe (needs mounting)
    • Fire Extinguisher (needs mounting)
    • Fire Hose (coming out of box-y arm thing near front of belly-tank, is this readable?)
    • Siren Light Box (struggling to stretch emissive bit of texture to whole face, maybe no no)
    Now, I understand if you're saying: Hey! Those don't belong on a 26th century battle field!
    OK, if any of it has to go... I still think I have an NC-style-bulky design in the Nanite storage tank I've added underneath, and the nozzle on the side could just be a Nanite refill conduit. What do you think?

    [IMG]

    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    P3d file:
    https://p3d.in/OrHyt
    'First-Responder Valkyrie'


    Imgur Album with more Valk concept sketches/renders:
    https://imgur.com/a/txH4w
    I still have a lot of things to fix, no doubt. I have some sloppy geo that has stretched uv's and a number of other little issues, most of which I've seen solutions for on the forum.
    So, Thanks already for posting and helping me learn a bunch.
    I'm prepared to hear harsh criticism, and if needed, completely scrap it and start over. I trust your guys' opinions.
  2. Fuzz Active Member

    Hey!

    Welcome to the fourm and thats a great first model :)

    Honestly for the first responder one I cant actually think of much critism other than what youve said; its not overly ambitious but every element makes sence and looks reasonably decent!

    As for your sketches using VR for sculpting looks pretty cool! I think your second design could be worked into a cool VS one
  3. AbstractHero Member

    Thanks Fuzz, you're just the man I wanted to talk to!
    I might have a question or two... considering you're the first, and only, player creator to get a Valk cosmetic on the market if I'm not mistaken? :)
    Did they decline your Valk Single Cockpit Glass cosmetic back in 2014, or did you not submit it? I thought it looked really sleek!

    And yeah, drawing and sculpting with VR with 6DOF Tracked Controllers (HTC Vive) is fantastic! and also disappointing...
    The technology has a lot of potential for 3d design. Foremost, being able to see stereo3D and manipulate your tools in all axis simultaneously (and in GravitySketchVR, using both hands in concert to create surface curvature) is so intuitive, it literally takes all the work out of the creative brainstorming process. It really becomes fun!

    But it's definitely in it's infancy... There's very few options right now for apps, and they're all sorely lacking beyond the basic sculpting/modeling tools. And at the same time, they're very resource intensive and limited in poly-count in order to maintain fluid framerates and interactions so you don't tip over and barf. I've got an i7 4Ghz, 24GB DDR3, and a 1080FE, and it drops frames massively while throwing the virtual clay. Not fun, when your eyes have a disagreement with your equilibrium over where the floor is, even for a fraction of a second.

    Somebody's gotta try this **** out though, and I was able to export OBJ meshes from the two apps I've tried.
    Ambitiously, I practiced my very first Retopo in Blender on my cruddy, terribly rough VR sculpt, and I got this:
    VR sculpt Retopo p3d

    560k Triangles down to 5890 Triangles, Huzzah!
    Some of it's there, most of it's ... well, you can't shine a turd, let's put it that way.
    Hmm, maybe it's time to learn Zbrush :rolleyes:
  4. Fuzz Active Member

    The valk single glass got eventually reworked into the avenger, I might revisit it at some point :)

    Tbh Whilst ive found scultpting great for armour and helmets are vehicles are more blocky its less mandatory.

    also dont be afraid to split cosmetics into multiple bits; you have the cockpit and exterior slots after all. My rule of thumb for planes is exterior slots are the wings and tail; and cockpit is the body.


    also make sure your shapes follow some form of design, like my critique of that retopo is that none of it makes sence; almost as if it looks like something growing on top of the valk, rather than a mechanical upgrade. (even if vr is cool a paper sketch can often help this)
  5. AbstractHero Member

    Thanks Fuzz, I definitely hear what you're saying about following a design from paper and pencil concept thru to modeling.

    That first VS concept was very impromptu, and after retopo I changed a lot. No foundation. No direction.

    Here's my update...
    I took that second VS concept and iterated on that.
    [IMG]

    I've done a first pass on texturing:
    p3d:
    https://p3d.in/hrsrl

    [IMG]
    [IMG]

    I'm still working on the nose cone area. Haven't got a strong concept there. But hopefully the rest is sensible. I should probably cut back on all the pipes, try to streamline more so it doesn't look so NC.
    Any thoughts?

    On another note, regarding my idea for a "fighter of fire" decal idea from the first post, I whipped this up in photoshop the other week:
    [IMG]

    and with more explosions:
    [IMG]

    (I know they are really not taking more decals at this time, but hey, maybe it's worth a shot)


    Still have a ways to go on all of these, and my TR Valk concept is still in the planning stages, so see ya back in a few weeks, hopefully with more updates :S
  6. Syrah Developer

    Yeah, sorry. We can't do the decals at this time. If you submit it, it will just go into the On Hold category.
  7. Fuzz Active Member

    i dig the kind of organic look but the mesh and textures need a bit of work.

    Not to be harsh but whilst the standalone mesh look ok the model on the valk has some issues:

    - theres a lot of clipping and holes,

    - each individual obejct should make some sort of topological sense, would I be right in saying this was created by sculpting? whilst scultping is good for initally testing shapes and concepts due to the polygon limit for ps2 its normally a best idea to create your meshes by hand. starting blocking out basic shapes then detailing them. Heres kinda what I mean
  8. AbstractHero Member

    Thanks for the feedback Fuzz and Syrah!

    Yep, I'm going thru detailing, already fixed the blatant clipping and self-intersection of the mesh. Hey, it's tough keeping a steady hand waving around VR controllers :)
    Nope, this is not virtual clay-sculpted per-se ;)
    This was however 99% a sketch from a NURBS Surface creation tool (GravitySketchVR) that creates really nice surfaces that can be exported to polygons in OBJ format. It even has low-poly surface tools as well.
    Which saved me a TON of time retopologizing, because it came into Blender with very nice orderly geo, albeit 100x too many edge loops for a game asset, but it was super simple to Alt-Click edge loops I didn't need and Ctrl-X
    Easy reduction of Tris from ~37k to ~6k
    [IMG]

    Here's my slightly updated mesh on top the Valkyrie Model:
    https://p3d.in/s1st9

    As you point out Fuzz, I've got to try hard to design it to blend well with the base model, aesthetics are very important where they meet. You're right, I probably need to refine around all the boundaries of my pieces so things don't just look slapped on. "Sci-Fi realism" is always in my mind as I'm brainstorming forms. Whatever little bits I add, I like to have some rational, there's got to be some reason that should be there. So hopefully I'm on the right track and it's just a matter of time and effort to fill in the gaps.

    So I've been rethinking some things on this design already. I'm thinking of moving the creepy sideways eyeball thing from the 'front fender' area, there's just kinda too much going on there. And So I can put detail out on the outboard wing engines to hopefully sell the idea better and adding some sleekness.
    The wings I added on the back will get totally changed. I'm thinking more stubby cylinder protrusions rather than whispy insect wings.
    Basically, don't be surprised if I drastically change a bunch of stuff.

    Thanks for the feedback again guys,
    @Syrah i totally understand, the decal market is absolutely saturated.
    Please tell me if I'm wasting anyone's time. I realize they're not assigning hours on Playerstudio, I understand submissions really need to be game-ready if I hope to have them pass beyond validation. So I'm going to take my time on these cosmetics, and really try to make it worthy of your efforts.
  9. Lobstrex Member

    You're not wasting anybody's time, man, this forum is all about showing off your WIPs and getting feedback!
    Anyway, about your model specifically, It needs work. The biggest change I think you should on is working out your smoothing groups, because right now it feels like almost every edge is soft, when they really shouldn't be. A general rule of thumb is angles over 30 degrees should probably remain hard. Here's some examples from your p3D model.[IMG]Another area I think you should work on is how busy some of your areas are, especially the area under/near cockpit the cockpit.

    But overall, you're making fantastic progress, man. Don't feel discouraged by people's critique, we want you to succeed! :)
  10. Fuzz Active Member

    no worries man, like your not wasting anyones time :) (and if my feedback ever feels too harsh lmk and ill reel it in a bit).

    your progress is excellent but i think theres 2 areas you should hammer down on;

    - the geo; like it may be an idea to retopo some areas in blender; the vr stuff is groundbreaking but also it looks a bit flimsy at some bits; like looking at it I cant really figure out whats going on with the nose. and as lobstrex says ditch the underside stuff, not only does it have

    - the textures are a bit messy; like they should make it clearer what shapes are where if that makes sence; the stretched tiling pattern and weird details all over look a bit off. Like if you look at any of d0ku or favens work the model works well without textures, but then they use the texture to add that little bit of extra oomph. Like take the big cockpit and the top panel; they look great as the textures go well to make the shapes pop. whilst the textures on the side of the cockpit just make things more confusing

    that being said the cockpit and top panel are fantastic and the wee hexagon blob under the wing is a neat detail
  11. AbstractHero Member

    Critiques are great! Agree on all your points.

    Needless to say I'm not a complete noob at 3D modeling (I've been playing around with this stuff since all the way back to the late -90's ), but texturing (and rigging) is stuff I've never done. So I'm just learning to not go crazy with the textures :)

    I'm cutting way back on everything, no more pipes and most of the textures have been drastically reduced.

    P3D:
    https://p3d.in/d3Jwk


    [IMG]
  12. Syrah Developer

    Everything stuck to the outside of it should be a "real thing" in your mind that connects to everything else. I needs to have a purpose and maybe even tell a story.

    What's the round blue dish on the left with the metal circle in it? Why is it there and how does it help the aircraft?

    That's my 2 cents.
  13. AbstractHero Member

    @Syrah The Dish Things? I thought it was elementary, but if it needs explaining, allow me to indulge...
    I suppose we need to go back to the year 2660. For a number of centuries, Vanu scientists had been attempting to invent a device which would enable them to communicate with their heretofore unseen alien brethren. In early April 2660, they finally made a breakthrough with the Turbo Encabulator. The early, crudely conceived concepts of the Encabulator were only able to transmit inverse reactive current. Only useful in unilateral-phase-detraction, it completely failed to automatically synchronize non-cardinal-gram-meters. Obvious to us now, is that properly synchronized magneto-reluctance is necessary to initiate capacitive duractance. Combining a beam composed of 60% tightly bound polaritons and 40% unbound vertex operators, side-fumbling was effectively prevented, and scientists were finally able to achieve a sufficient resolving focal image capable of long range communication with extra terrestrial satellites. With further development, they were able to package this device into a form factor that could be utilized on the battlefield to allow real-time relay of pertinent battle intelligence to persons directing tactical operations.

    TL : DR It's a satellite dish for receiving daybreak cash :D

    I don't know what you want me to say... It's a thing. It kinda looked like it took energy from the pipes and focused it into the eyeball shaped thing. It's not as if we get to add any text description to the item on the market, other than the item name.
    But since I removed the piping, it became too much of a visual focal point, it looks too garish now, I agree.
    So if you're just being encouraging, OR if you're politely saying you don't like it and you'd like to see a redesign... Obviously cosmetic stuff in PS2 serves no purpose other than to look cool... I hear what you're saying, it should look practical and battle hardened to fit in (and to be well received by the community).

    I do have an over-arching theme with my planned set of NC,VS,TR Valk armor. Like I said, the Valkyrie is the quick response vehicle for the squads that move fast and keep abreast of the threats. So I'm trying to embody that in my designs.
    The NC 'First Responder' (still revising, basic idea : tack on stuff to be prepared for any situation)
    The VS 'Eyes of Vanu' (sort of 'Eye of Sauron' eyeballs that 'see everything' on the battlefield and communicate to Vanu)
    The TR 'Panopticon' (still sketching out , basic idea so far : radar dome and surveillance equipment, more shielding, riot control gear)

    So, here's my update on the VS 'Eyes of Vanu' concept:
    I removed a lot of geo from the front including the large glowing dishes, per suggestions, and went to work adding stuff to the outboard engines. No texturing yet until I fill gaps and clean up the flow of this geo.
    [IMG]

    P3d:
    https://p3d.in/AlRAE
  14. binarycoder Member

    Your shapes coming along great! However, it looks really busy imo. I think you're trying to pull too much detail from the texture sheets. There's a few areas where you would really benefit from some larger and more solid colors, like so:

    [IMG]
    (just a quick draw over)

    Right after I did this I re-read your post, see now that you aren't at textures yet, just something to keep in mind I guess.
    • Like x 1
  15. Syrah Developer

    Keep in mind, you are trying to win over an art director from the game team with your design. Not me. I'm just a volunteer helping out with Player Studio on the side while I work on an unannounced game.

    In other words, don't change anything because you think I don't like something. My opinion does not matter any more than a random stranger. :)
  16. AbstractHero Member

    @Syrah well, at the very least, you must browse thru a lot of submissions, and I'm sure you've got an eye for what fits and what doesn't. So I'll take it for what it's worth. I think you're helping steer me in a successful direction.

    @binarycoder Beautiful! How did I not see it before.. That's exactly what the cockpit glass needed!
    As for the dense texturing, yes, I'm hearing you guys loud and clear. As I refine the mesh, I'll re-texture things to use 'blank' areas of the sheet. I'll avoid using areas with normal mapping, only if it makes sense at a proper scale without stretching.

    Here's my update for the week:
    I know there's still some holes and bad mesh intersections, but I feel like I'm passing the half-way mark. Of course, the devils' in the details...

    P3d:
    https://p3d.in/CkrUU

    [IMG]
    Gave the glass a sharper peek and some hard edges. Damn that's sexy.

    Then I went too far, perhaps, and put a recessed bevel there and textured it with a glow
    [IMG]

    What do you guys think?

    Man, I wish there was a gloss black swatch on the VS_Magrider_Scythe texture sheet. This is the closest I could find to a black glass. Am I missing some trick?

    [IMG]
    • Like x 1
  17. Fuzz Active Member

    Thats a massive improvement :) good job!

    a few of the teeny tiny squares have something that might work for the glass
  18. AbstractHero Member

    This week I ditched my designs and went back to the drawing board trying some different concepts on the front half and underside.

    Here's all the "spaghetti I threw at the wall" so to say, all the different stuff I modeled over the week, all piled together:
    https://p3d.in/MczpZ
    [IMG]



    After pruning, here's what's left I felt like "stuck", I think this concept looks like it belongs in the Planetside universe, what say you all?
    https://p3d.in/g7EeJ
    [IMG]


    One of the next challenges will be learning how to rig this to the Valk skeleton so that I can have the outboard-engine geometry attached to the rotation of the wings properly.
    I will probably move on to the next faction valk cosmetic while I study up on the subject.
  19. Lobstrex Member

    Fantastic progress! You've got a really solid concept there, and the execution is superb!

    Watch your poly density though, and having backfaces visible. I'm not sure if your model above is the 'final' one, but if so, you'll want to look into these two things, especially on the area you've added to the bottom of the valk.
  20. AbstractHero Member

    @Fuzz When I tried shrinking down my cockpit glass U/V mesh in one of those swatches (that looked like a nice shiny black) and rendering in PlayerStudio, it looks odd. It looks almost like something is wrong with the normal mapping/scale? I dunno. My best description would be that the surface looses it's flow and appears to have triangles flipped and high-contrast areas that do not change regardless of changes to incoming light direction.
    Also, since I'm such a noob at texturing, I seem to be doing something wrong with my mirror geometry and normals. I don't understand how to get a color texture to mirror to the other side without having the Normal map be inverted inside out as well. So details that appear to light 'outwards' on one side of my mesh light 'inwards' on the mirrored side. I thought mirroring half of my "map2" U/V's would fix it, but it does not. I guess I should look back through the forum again.

    You can see the two issues on the cockpit glass in my new TR faction concept I did this week:
    [IMG]


    [IMG]

    Here's the P3d:
    https://p3d.in/5yqXo

    if you have critiques, let me know. I'm just playing with some ideas, maybe it's a little crazy. I realize the cloth draped under the wing will probably clip the player models and block First-Person view in the rumble seats and the cloth draped across the front 'fender' will block the decal spot. Speaking of which, would it be possible to map a decal onto the cloth banner? I think that would look pretty killer, eh?

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