What are your thoughts on a mod-able UI?

This is a non argument. The very fact that MMO's are increasingly about play-style choices on different platforms and that SOE already have two offerings would in no way indicate that they develop solely for the PC and for all design decisions to be made solely around that platform. DCUO and PS2 weren't developed in isolation for each platform, the design elements were designed sympathetically for both platform. The SOE/SCE isn't even pertinent to the issue of UI and UX, it's just the mechanism for distribution.

I don't feel that your response addresses my original point of trying to ascertain which platform we were talking about here, as you feel strongly that this is PC only, but would it hurt to get further clarification, before people start suggesting mods that could not work in the more closed console or mobile space?

Is there a good reason why we shouldn't ask if this is a PC only game?

Modable UI is an absolute must. While I did like the fact that the original EQ UI didn't have Damage Meters and the like and required you to focus on how the player was doing (getting hit by avoidable dmg, facing the wrong way, using LOS to avoid aoe and the like) to determine their skill, I think that specific UI mods such as hotkey placements, targeting & party windows and other mods have made life (gaming) sooo much easier. I'd hate to see us take a step back but I'd still love to have the feel of the game without Damage Meters and relying on other aspects of play to determine who we are grouping with.

Yes, and he's basically just wrong. It could easily end up on a console as PS2 and DCUO are going to.

I wouldn't worry too much about him on this.

And as an aside, while I don't care about it, I'm surprised I haven't seen chat bubbles mentioned yet in UI.... Seems like the number one UI complaint I hear from the TOR crowd ^^

It will probably be a PC only game, spreading to different consoles just forces the game to be worse and worse, due to technical/graphic and update limitations. Less PS4 fixes all that.

If EQN comes to the PS4, it will work differently than the PC version. There is no reason that PC users should be hamstrung on options because the game is also on PS4.

My thought on this is that no matter what, you're most likely to have people putting out mods anyways. I voted for number 1, but only with the knowledge that it's something you can't quite *fight* for lack of a better word.

That being said, hopefully eqn will have a UI that is easy to work with. Every window able to be moved and resized, chat able to be a different color for different things. EQ2 has an amazing UI functionality, with pretty much all the options you could hope for, imo.

EQ2 is an example of how a game UI should be...

SWTOR is an example of how a crappy UI that doesn't get changed till months in can drive away many players. (seriously that was god awful what they had and it took them like 6 months to change it)

Last time I checked, DCUO and PS2 weren't too dissimilar on the PC/PS3. Do you feel that those two games are hamstrung on the PC? There are a bunch of reasons why we need to consider every platform, and not dismiss is as 'not going to happen'

1) Familiarity with control systems, and user interface for cross platform play.
2) Significantly streamlined development process to develop a system that can be utilized by multiple platforms.
3) Development of content and systems to make best use of interactive assets.
4) Consistency when users generate content.

EQNext is a platform for the next 10 years, the PS4 is touted to have a 6-7 year life cycle, why wouldn't this be important? Are we only going to be playing MMO's on PC's and we are done forever. How are touchscreens going to impact us, other control methods? No one has even talked about VR yet like the Oculus Rift, or Sony's recently rumoured headset, this is all User Interfacing, but people seem to be totally preoccupied on the WoW add-on's methodology as it's within their comfort zone.

I don't mean to berate you specifically, however given you responded, I figured I'd share my thoughts as they are a little deeper than 'OMG what about the PS4!!!!!' Cheers!

I fully appreciate a customizable UI, but only to the point of rearranging and altering the colors of windows and action bars.

I would argue that mods exist not as a result of the state of MMOs, but to get around the things in MMOs players don't like.

In EQ1 I hated having to click Next Next Next all the time. A lot of old-school games are like that, very heavy on the text. I would argue that most players skip it, don't read it, and find it annoying. The mod exists as a result of what the player-base feels they need.

I think you have a valid argument for developers not wanting to put more time into elements that players don't use or like. I would argue that it would be a mistake to utilize resources developing content for a fraction of the player base when that time could be better spent on content that more people will use and enjoy.

I still think it's important for the lesser used content to be developed, I just don't think it makes sense to prioritize it over content that more players will use and enjoy.

There is no doubt that UI mods will be allowed in EQNext, its an EQ-Tradition. However they should also allow all mods including particle effects, shaders, textures to be allowed into the game for extreme customization like Skyrim. As long as it does not give someone a game advantage. Which even UI mods can do these days due to programs like curse and other programs that allow you to just f;y all over the place and UI mods that tell you exactly where nodes are due to scripting.

I absolutely believe you can quite "fight" it. It sounds like allowing cheats and hacks should get a pass too because you can't quite fight it. There should be a limit to what players can and can't mod to keep the game from becoming an absolute bore devoid of any type of challenge, ie DBM.

It is a lofty goal for the developers to claim that there won't be quest markers, but with true modding that will all come back if they don't downright ban the mod. Quest markers may seem harmless to many but not every MMO should turn quests into a grind with people playing games on auto-pilot. Nowadays MMORPGs are too far removed from what made them RPGs in the first place.

I can already see someone out there salivating at the thought of creating a mod which allows you to instantly get in good favors with an NPC if they incorporate Story Bricks type of conversations, without the need to do anything yourself. To me every MMO feels the same way because thanks to extreme modding it may as well be.

I have no issues with just UI modification of existing UI elements but the "WoW"-way just removes any challenge one could have. Sure there may be players out there who don't want a challenge and simply want to have fun but they already have a million MMOs that cater to them.

I very much enjoy the Idea and implementation of mod-able UI's. Look at Eq2, Profit UI is one of the if NOT the most popular UI interface the game has. Utilizing incredible details and mods to the game itself, hot-linkable quests that go straight to EQ2i, invite to group/raid from guild window etc. We need more innovation and that is one standard SOE has always stood by!

I want them to allow us to mod all textures as well, and shaders as long as they are "client-side" and not "server-side."

I would disagree. For a single player game, that is fine.

However this is a shared world. Everyone should see the same world and the same appearance. There may be an option for higher and lower resolution graphics, but the appearances should remain the same. Not where one person says "Go down to the corner and go in the grey stone building" but another person sees it as a pink wooden building.

Why does it matter? If they want a pink building why can't they have it? Its not like you can see it as pink.

Maybe they made it pink because they are color blind?

Client-Side means it would only affect the machine the mod is used on. It would not affect yours.

*facepalm* We just had a discussion about why custom textures was a bad idea, and how you want to be able to customize the shaders?

I guess if you are going to lobby for game-breaking exploits, you might as well go all in.

Let's put in the Alt+F4 God Mode hack too.

A color blind guy that can't see gray... that would be original.

I prefer option number 3. Though I guess that is the same as option number 1. As most people use a reputable site like Curse Gaming which checks their mods and makes sure they are both not malware or breaking the games rules.

I liked WOW when it first came out. I quit playing it a long time ago, because it is just too easy. But the mods you could get really made the game very customizable and each player could fine tune it the way they wanted, while still playing within the rules. I remember EQ started having mods before I quite playing it. And those mods were pretty nice. Timers were very important, to help keep track of when mobs would respawn. The timer mods in your UI were great. I'm sure raid agro mods are nice to. And what raid leader would be happy without a DPS/healing raid meter? But my favorite mods in WOW were things that showed me how much something was worth. That warned me if it was a valuable crafting piece of gear. A mod that helped me cast efficiently. And last but not least the mod that helped me monitor the auction house. So I could make decent money without personally monitoring the auction house 24/7.

Another reason I like option number 3 is that I hope SOE would approve the mod. And then whenever there was a patch we wouldn't have to reload all our mods to get things working again. Because the mod would already be within the approved SOE framework. And since the mod was approved by SOE, it should be very rare that a new patch requires an approved mod to be redone. Thus making all mod users lives much easier. As all we have to do is load the patch and play. Instead of downloading the patch, and praying the mod developers have all updated your favorite mods. Then downloading them, and resetting up your entire UI all over again. Which was always the nightmare of all the major patches in WOW.

Because it's not just their world to change.

Oh yes I completely agree that they should fight hacks and such.

Basically my shining example of horrible UI was SWTOR. That UI was a steaming pile of bantha poo doo, seriously. And the worst part was they didn't want to allow mods to make it not suck as bad. That is what I'm talking about.

I fully expect eqn to have a wonderful UI, tbh. They could basically just put eq2's UI on there and it would still be awesome (except maybe add to where you don't have to mouseover for NPC health )

I actually kind of like FF14's quest system. They have quest markers, but you can only do each quest once. For example, I got my paladin to lvl 50, and that's all well and good, but I am doing storyline quests along the way, and also did some quests in towns. Now if I want to multi-class, and level a white mage for instance? Well all those quests are gone. Just because I switched classes doesn't mean I get to quest to level up. I have to find some other way.

Not saying I support ! over the head of NPC's... but if they limit the quest content then it won't ruin my day if someone decides to mod that in for themselves.