There are many ways death could work in MMOs...

Discussion in 'News, Announcements, and Dev Discussions' started by Dexella, Oct 2, 2013.

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  1. Wandidar Aroundidar Well-Known Member

    Given that EQN has no levels...

    Would it have at least been possible to give examples that might actually occur in EQN?

    The poll questions are asking loaded emotional response questions - rather than actual concrete idea questions.
    • Up x 5
  2. Xurtan Well-Known Member

    That's a bit extreme. I ran into that attitude sometimes, but not nearly that often. Generally, whatever MMO I end up spending time in people are exceedingly helpful and polite, if sarcastic or snarky at times - very few are genuinely trolls or immature ********. Admittedly, I never played WoW for any significant amount of time. *shrug* Hell, I'm getting back into Vanguard and people seem more than willing to help with corpse runs - and people in EQII were generally just as polite as EQI. I think you're spending time with the wrong crowds. Or games. :p
    • Up x 4
  3. Katanallama New Member

    Perhaps a small xp loss (no levels), armor damage and your max health is lowered to 85% for a minute or something? I mean you did just come back from the dead, might want to rest a minute! Those who are impatient would have some added risk, but nothing drastic.

    I would advise against ghost / corpse runs, I personally NEVER want to deal with that junk again lol. Just stick to the small penalties - we do plan to die thousands of times over the life of this game :)
    • Up x 2
  4. Cynderblock Active Member


    What if, instead of a throwback server (though I'm definitely for that!) they did it in a way that was mentioned in your quoted post.

    Perhaps you choose an option when you make your character.

    Hardcore: Permadeath. I don't think a lot of people HONESTLY want this, but why not have it as an option?

    Frustrated: Corpse runs, with fairly severe penalties (one I liked was from Mallas Scumlord, where you don't really lose levels, so to speak, but instead lose time. Whatever you had done in the last 10 minutes is reverted back to before then), exp penalties, armor reduction, maybe even armor breaking, down time due to some form of rez sickness.

    Neutral: Corpse run with no penalties. Add the element of danger, without the risk?

    Easy: No corpse run. You respawn at the closest NPC respawn point.
    • Up x 2
  5. Raecin New Member


    I agree with some of this, but the way you describe it completely alienates the casual gamer. I /HATED/ losing my corpse in EQ1. And the GMs would really get sick of me petitioning my way to my corpse. No corpse runs. No losing gear. I'm all for 20 minute stat debuffs, xp loss, and de-leveling though. But ABSOLUTELY NO CORPSE RUNS!!!
    • Up x 2
  6. Ineluka New Member

    Has to be corpse recovery for me. I know pretty well just how annoying it could be, believe me I played a rogue main for years & years in a raiding guild, so, well you can imagine! Mostly agreeing with the points listed by Amris, yes, EQ1 did have it right certainly back in the early days, yes we all have horrendous memories of fear raids and still being dragging corpses at 4am - and consequently we were very damn careful on the next trip up there. That sense of danger, not only personal but the sense of 'screw this up and you will probably wipe 50 odd other people and they will quite likely be a bit annoyed' can't be overstated, and neither can the community/social side to it, needing others to help fairly often. Everyone complains that WoW, and all it's clones don't have the sense of danger, and don't have anything like the amazing community that was in EQ1 - there's your reason, at least by far the biggest reason.

    Also another point I feel is important but hasn't been addressed or I can't see any mention, for me the big problem with having it based on heavy personal penalty, equipment damage, etc. is that by the way it works, that will usually hit lower level players who've maybe just started playing, not in a guild etc. FAR harder than the max level raiding types with access to guild banks, etc. and that's completely the wrong way around imo. Needs to be something that will be enough of a deterrent that ALL players no matter level, resources, experience will rather not have it happen. Not something that is going to be an absolute horror for a newbie lvl 15 player with just a couple of friends but won't even make a dent in a lvl 70s pockets or time.

    EQ1 came the closest to getting that learning curve right, I think. It was a bit harsh at the start certainly and perhaps something that scales up from being slightly less punishing would be better - think most who played from early days will remember the run across the karanas and the inevitable corpse or 5 very very lost in a very very bad place lol, and while we can laugh at it now, I doubt most would want to repeat it ;)
    • Up x 12
  7. Shrouded Hope Active Member

    I voted for 'No penalty' because out of these choices it's the closest to my preference.
    I'm alright with equipment damage and things starting to break down. Experience loss is not something I miss from my years with Dungeons and Dragons. It's especially frustrating when you die not because of a lack of skill, but because of connection problems or another issue that's out of your hands.
    I don't mind if I have to start in the nearest town or city again and lose 15min-30min of travel time.

    Failure is its own punishment. I don't feel it needs to be spiced with hardcore loss of progress.
    If the Hardcore crowd is big enough, perhaps they could be catered to with a server of their own where permadeath or otherwise horrendous losses apply.
    • Up x 3
  8. Xurtan Well-Known Member

    Which is the issue. You shouldn't -plan- to die. Dying should be something to fear, not something to expect or use to travel. The world should be dangerous, and it should punish you if you screw up. Bring back the fear to MMOs. The sense of adventure, and exploration. It's hard to do that when you know a death will, if anything, take you -closer- to where you want to go and maybe you have to repair gear.
    • Up x 11
  9. Wandidar Aroundidar Well-Known Member

    Personal opinion here:

    I always found death in games with xp debt to be MORE punishing than EQ with exp and level loss.

    Why? Well, when I lost exp (and even a level) I looked at my exp bar and it just showed my exp.

    With debt - I get to look at the red bar of shame until I do enough stuff to stop having to look at it.
    • Up x 5
  10. Kashim Active Member


    Yay! Equipment damage... That's original and innovative.

    I sort of get the feeling the devs have already made up their minds before asking us these questions. A lot of them seem pretty one-sided.
    • Up x 3
  11. Apocalypsebunny Well-Known Member

    THIS THIS THIS A MILLION TIMES THIS!!!!

    Seriously I want to see the following all combined:

    1. Bring back the naked corpse runsC
    2. Corpse dragging
    3. The ability to rez and summon corpses by class with expensive reagants so that there is even more of a penality in the form of buying mats (preferably mats that can only be obtained through some tradeskill)
    4. Repair fees

    The bigger the penalty the smarter the players. I'm tired of people goofing off because their is no real penalty or impact for death. Its time to make a strong player community again, bring back the old EQ1 rules with even more penalties. Make this game a challenging game that encourages a strong community and not just another polished turd like so many games have done.
    • Up x 12
  12. Amris Well-Known Member

    That's because cheap, easy death mechanics support this.

    When death really matters, and corpse recovering really matters, these "lrn2play n00b" dudes are going to find themselves doing some groveling. They're going to learn manners or leave. They're going to find themselves changing... and it's going to be a good life lesson for them.

    These kids want challenge. There's a yearning for it that's visible all over the place, if you have the willingness to see it.

    They want to be part of something bigger, but they don't understand yet that what they need is challenge.

    They'll rise to it. I've seen them do it in Minecraft with my own eyes. I've watched how even just a few people in a community showing them that bad behavior gets them unpleasant results can change their actions and their attitudes.

    They want it.
    • Up x 23
  13. Mallas Scumlord Well-Known Member

    EQ1 it started around the time i quit. I don't know how EQ2 was.

    I would just rather not have to make people drop what they are doing to help. You die, you should be able to "repair" yourself. If you want help and someone is willing, great. But yea. Was never a fan of corpse runs, rather have some other type of time sink.
    • Up x 1
  14. Syllogy Well-Known Member

    Building a community shouldn't be the main focus when designing the death penalty, but I do like your suggestion about changing your class to fit the task.
  15. Yanu/Yavie New Member

    I remember corpse runs in fear and other places in EQ. I can't say I remember them fondly. I also remember falling to my death many times when first learning how to play the game and having to get someone to help me locate all my corpses to get my exp. and gear back. It was very frustrating to a first timer that had never played any other type of computer game than solitaire. I remember after the 2nd or 3rd batch of raid deaths, many people would just log out without saying anything. Making us have to stop raiding for that day because we had lost too many people that were mad. I think that's a little over the top these days.

    In EQ2 we have to repair gear. Not much of a deterrent to getting killed.

    Coming back to EQ after playing EQ2, I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't need to do an actual corpse run to get my gear, but I did lose exp. at each death and had death effects that had to wear off. Needing to be rezzed to get your exp. back is a goodness, it makes a person more careful and willing to group with others so they don't die.

    I guess it depends on if you want people to solo/molo or group. If you want them to group, make them need a rezz but allow them a way to get their corpse back as you have done in EQ without doing those horrid corpse runs.

    I think at this point in my EQ experience I would prefer to be allowed to go to a central location as in EQ and have the npc call my corpse if I can't find a rezz in that zone. That way I have the option of getting rezzed. I do think however that losing exp. and thus de-leveling is still a viable thing to have happen when you die. I also think that having to repair my gear as in EQ2 is a deterrent. So, a good mix of the way death works in EQ and EQ2 is my opinion.
    • Up x 1
  16. Morwen New Member

    I have played MMO's with rather harsh penalties on death (as Lineage II, de-leveling, XP-loss, dropping of gear). I was always scared of dying there. Even so much that I almost never dared to do somehing exciting.

    In Everquest II I take ever challenge I walk into... because even when I die nothing serious will happen. So I am in favour for a mild penalty on death (as it is now in Everquest 2 for example). With other words... a gentle penalty makes me do exciting things!!!!
    • Up x 2
  17. Xurtan Well-Known Member

    Partially because they like to combine some options that really shouldn't be combined. They've said they're limited to five options, but if that's the case.. fire your website coding team and get someone to toss together a better polling system. *snort*
    • Up x 1
  18. Talzar of Quellious Active Member

    I was going to make a post in this thread but there's really no point now. If you guys at SOE want new Ferraris then follow this list and make a successful game.
    • Up x 14
  19. Mallas Scumlord Well-Known Member

    it started in EQ1. This isn't a WoW/GW2 whatever attitude. Its the people playing. The more and more in the game the more and more we get that attitude.

    EQ1 was helpful until about the time Luclin came out. It may be that Nameless was a crap server for help. But i saw that attitude start there, and it has flourished.

    Its not death mechanics as you say. I am sure you have also said fast travel and 50 other things cause this. Its their personal lack of respect and humanity we have bred into our children.

    I am from the old school. If i see someone dead, i will help as long as i am not trying to meet people. But that just isn't the case with a good chunk of ANY games community. I mean you can't even get a group in a dungeon on GW2 to res people when there is nothing to it. If they won't do that, why would they help you clear part of a dungeon to get your corpse back?
    • Up x 1
  20. Merliben Member

    That's about the maximum of progress I'd ever want to see rolled back.

    Honestly, WoWs death penalty system was really immersive, but in some cases was a bit too... inconsequential. However, I wouldn't make it much more consequential, just a tad.
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