In EverQuest Next, should one character be able to learn all types of crafting?

Discussion in 'News, Announcements, and Dev Discussions' started by Dexella, Jan 22, 2014.

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  1. Zarriya Member

    Irregardless of how one votes and the outcome, this is a very good question!
  2. Jensen Member


    Do you believe what trade skill I choose, given that history shows you will never make an item you can actually use at the level you can make, is meaningful? Do you think that by allowing the group of people who enjoy crafting the ability to craft what they want to craft means that meaningful choice has been removed from the game? I would like to be able to make choices that affect the world in a meaningful way, but having to arbitrarily decide on a subset of trade skills on a given character doesn't do that. It simply limits me artificially with something that has no actual impact. Unless you limit the account to one character, and make trades actually worth something, it is impossible to make that choice meaningful.
    • Up x 3
  3. Bongo Member

    No, but I can build a chair, brew beer, weld, juggle, am passable in Photoshop, and about a dozen other random things, lol. I'm not saying everyone should / will be able to do everything, but it should be possible for people who aspire to pick up more than one trade to be able to do so. (Probably in some limited fashion)

    I really am looking for a more immersive world in a next gen mmorpg, and I don't think that should be dictated by 20 year old game mechanics based on the simplest possible way of limiting supply and demand of goods and services.(Which is already mostly broken if a dedicated crafter makes alts for all the classes anyways) I feel like we have a lot of smart people working on this game and they can probably come up with a richer, deeper system that allows players some freedom to explore different crafts and trades with one character, and allows that dedicated crafter, who formerly would just make a half dozen alts, to maintain one persona in the game.

    Raiders can kill every boss, but not all of them do. It takes dedication (Time + Effort * Coffee / # of dependents) Why not allow this same luxury of freedom to "try" to crafters as well?

    -Bongo
    • Up x 6
  4. Maikal Member

    I think the last line actually is the problem with limits in my opinion. Any system that puts these limits or penalties in place can be bypassed. Whether its through the use or alts (common) or as with some MMO's the need to use more accounts (been there done that.. SWG anyone..).

    The only real penalty is for the "common" player which is the massive customer base you are actually needing (my opinion). The real currency in MMO's is time... there is a large enough penalty for people who don't have much of it. For people like me (no lifers lol) then its not so much a penalty as to what dance do I have to do... In the end after a person puts in enough time they should be at the summit. I shouldn't gain some advantage over everyone long term (key point) just because I have the ability to free up large amounts of time and RL resources to throw into a game (aka running 9 accounts in SWG). *edit note* There are likely many long term advantages to someone that knows a game well... what I mean by long term advantage is simply the level of crafting I can obtain. Obviously I would likely have a much better selection of resources and likely even schematics than someone with much less time to invest. I am simply saying that Bob should still be able to master all the things I can (bob being made up guy in this example) but it will take Bob much longer to do so because he has less time per session/week etc

    That's how I'd answer the question you posed anyway (just my opinion obviously).
    • Up x 3
  5. rabb1t Active Member

    While I would agree that, once upon a time, it did, I really don't think that applies anymore. Ever since DAoC years ago, in every MMO I've played I've seen people who crafted everything, regardless of how many bodies they needed t make. Players didn't want to spend the time with that social interaction you saw back in the days of EQ1 where you had your favorite 'x crafter'.

    But here is a key point; you have 7 crafts (or I suppose 14 depending on the game). Sure, there is a distinction in character that one is different from the other, but you, the player, still have access to all those crafts. It doesn't matter if it's on one body or 7. The only difference is that in this case you require a login to change the craft.

    But here's the thing; in terms of game mechancs you have 3 crafts. Period. It doesn't matter to the game mechanics if that's 1 per character or 3 on a single character. This matters to you, the player. To, I'd wager, the vast majority of players, particularly ones who aren't RP players, they don't care if you have 1 craft x 3 characters. It makes no difference at all to them.

    And what about players like me, who spend most or all of our time in a single character? Maybe I've got a different opinion from others having playing something like 30 MMOs, but requiring me to log in as a different character to access a different class, be that adventuring or crafting, is simply an inconvenience. I, the player, will play what I want. The time invested is the time invested. If it takes me a dozen hours to get 2 adventuring classes to level 10 and 2 crafting skills to level 10, that's what it takes. Requiring me to log in to different characters for each is inconvenient and not how I want to play. Limiting like this annoys and limits my fun. Allowing all characters to have all classes and all crafting skills doesn't change your fun. If you want to RP certain characters having certain classes and certain skills, then that's still an option.

    Yes and no. As I argued with adventuring classes, players play a certain way. Someone who only enjoys playing as DPS isn't going to level up and collect all the tanking classes just because they can. If they don't like it, they are not going to be convinced to do it just because they aren't required to change charters. Similarly if someone doesn't enjoy a particular crafting skill, or won't use it, they aren't going to spend the time just because they can.

    As per my first post, time invested is time invested. The player is spending their time either way. It's really only in the perception of the individual, as a player, that limiting class or crafting skills per character will make a difference. IMO, giving people the option and allowing them to choose restriction is better than requiring restriction.
    • Up x 2
  6. Ataal New Member

    I know it's "just a game," but being able to master all crafts is just so unrealistic. This is an RPG, right? Look, I'm not the guy that walks around speaking in medieval tongue all the time, but we should at least be able to set some types of limitations here.
    Heck, throw that argument out the window for a second and think about the economy. Everyone can create anything....awesome. Everything you craft is now worthless. It'll cost you(time and maybe money) more to get the resources than you'll be able to sell it for. And, once that happens, crafted items will be thrown by the wayside as far as attributes go, making them even more worthless. Look at nearly every other game. You fight for an hour and get 10x better equipment through either loot or money to buy them than the crafted stuff. It becomes nothing more than bragging rights to master a craft. Please don't let this become the norm on EQN, too.
  7. Dutch Oven New Member

    One way or another I will learn all the crafts, if it takes alts or multiple accounts then so be it. However, I'd prefer to be able to do them all on one character. ;)
    • Up x 3
  8. Thea New Member

    A) This isn't the real world, it's a game and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I don't want it it be like the real world. I don't know too many Paladins or wood elves IRL do you? ;)
    B) In the real world many people are proficient or even talented at many different things.
  9. Chavr New Member

    I'm not a crafting fanatic. My wife played EQ and she loved mastering a crafting skill. I wouldn't want to see crafting made so easy that there is no sense of accomplishment when you final reach the top.

    However, I also played WoW and I absolutely hated having to limit which crafting skills I could pursue. I liked fletching in EQ, made enough coin to buy my first full set of mail armor at 2p per AC. I tried smithing and baking and various other crafts during my eight years of playing. And the best thing about the whole system? I never once had to make a character just so I could work on a crafting skill. My one character was able to craft whatever I wanted to craft.

    Should I be able to master every craft? Only if there is a good sized investment in time and effort. Similar to how if I want to be the best Paladin on my server then I have to devote time and effort to learning and gearing.

    So yes to a character being able to learn every craft, but no to making it easy.

    And by hard I don't mean having to do 200 combines with some rare drop mats which is just annoying. Make some quests as part of crafting. Make some of it group or raid level since the same is expected to be the best at adventuring.


    When I think of smithing I'd like to go to the master smith and apprentice. During the apprentice ship I go through the basics and then do some quests to provide different pieces to various people while progressively moving through more difficult items. Then once I reach apprentice level I can become a journeyman and be sent on farther ranging quests to fill. I'd need to figure out how to get my supplies and tools and such while I'm at the journeyman level. No single piece of gear should require more than about 10 repetitions to master but there should be a variety of items such as tools, crafting specific items, household items, and finally adventuring items which need to be made. After I successfully complete my time as a journeyman I go back to apprentice to a grand master smith so that I can become a master. More quests, more items, but now I should have to incorporate materials from multiple skills and of higher quality. Finally after I attain master smith I could go for grandmaster which is where the quests start having group and raid level difficulty.

    I'd like to see the system be designed so that a character can be purely a crafter and still reach grandmaster but I can understand if grandmaster has some sort of minimum level.

    Where I would put a limitation is the number of crafts you can be apprenticed to at one time. I would make it so only one craft at a time can be actively gaining. So I could be a master smith, apprentice tailor and working on my journeyman bowyer but my tailoring couldn't be advanced until I complete bowyer or reset it back to apprentice. I'd lose any progress made during the current stage to switch to another craft to learn.
    • Up x 1
  10. Snoestrom New Member

    I am kind of in the middle and there are a lot of great points that people are making here! First of all, I hate making alts! Second, I hate making alts so I can, or have to (which was my choice to of course) level every possible profession! I personally wish you could max a profession or two professions and then pay some type of gold charge to "save your progress" so you could come back to it later on without any penalty except for a small cost of gold payment to switch back. I think it would be great if you could master every profession but could only currently hold maybe 2 at a time.
  11. rabb1t Active Member

    But again, how does limiting characters change this?

    Free system:
    Adventure level 15, Armorer level 5, Fletcher level 8, Leatherworker level 10

    Restricted system:
    Adventure level 15, Armorer level 5
    Adventure level 9, Fletcher level 8
    Adventure level 12, Leather-worker level 10

    In the second / restricted system all you've done is forced the player to play different adventuring characters and forced them to log in between changes. The 'effect on the economy' is the exact same in each condition.

    Again, the only thing that matters is time invested. If you are pro-restriction because the player has to spend more time, then that's fine. Implement a free system and say that every crafting skill past, say two, take 25% longer for every 2. (So first 2 = 100% progression, 3-4 = 75% as fast, 5-6 = 25% as fast.) You've got your time sink.

    But if you are arguing economy and RP reasons, again, the economy is impacted the same in both forms, nothing is stomping someone from making alts, and RP, well, that will only matter to the player, which as above, they can self-restrict all they want.
    • Up x 3
  12. Tyrogon Member

    We don't know the role crafting will play in this game but if it is anything like other sandbox games it will play a big one.

    If crafting is not limited then there is a greater chance of people not being able to be dedicated crafters. With no limits it increases the number of people with crafting skills which means there is a decrease in demand. With this decrease in demand there is a greater chance of Mats being more valuable the final product. Mats can be used to make the product for skill. If you buy the final product you cant get those skill gains. Yes i made a assumption that you gain skill by crafting something but i think it shows how it can decrease the value of crafted goods which hurts dedicated crafters.
  13. Muzz New Member

    I think everyone should be able to level any craft they want, though I do think players should be limited in what they can 'specialize' into. A good example of this would be Final Fantasy XI where all players could skill their trades to 60 but were then only allowed to take one craft to 100 (aside from fishing).
  14. Zefyria New Member

    I have found when playing World Of Warcraft (WoW) that I enjoyed the ability to be completely self-dependent through time applied. No needing to go running to the auction house - I could spend a few days farming mats, and a few lucky drops of rare materials - I could do anything!

    This resulted in (when the level cap was 85) nine level 85 characters, and all the professions maxed out among them. Nine. I felt that, because I had these characters, I really should play them too. I ended up with three or four of the characters that could raid.

    Then the level cap raised to 90. I started the same process all over again - extending my characters and their professions so I could remain self-dependent. By the time I stopped playing WoW, I had an extra character, so ten all up, and five of these characters were level 90. It felt like a chore. A second full-time job. I couldn't do it. Not when you combine the dailies to get them to the point of geared and ready to raid too.

    What I want from EQN is the ability to stick to one character. I am ready for it. I am ready to focus. And the ability to be ANY CLASS allows me to do this. I'm excited for it! But as per usual, I want to be self-dependent if I can. And that requires the ability to have all crafting professions on one character. If I have to spend time exploring and unlocking them, bring it on. I love the challenge. I am ready to explore and make friends with all the wrong NPCs.

    HOWEVER! If there is some unlocking requirement that requires my character to follow a more evil/chaos/negative alignment, and my character happens to be pure/angelic/good alignment, I have no problem having two - possibly three - characters. One good, one evil, and if necessary for some bizarre reason, one neutral.

    I'm asking as a personal favour - please don't give me reason to have hundreds of alts. I'd like the choice this time.

    Choice is the most important thing here. People could still have some beefy character that they feel will have all the hardworking professions like woodwork and blacksmithing, and some dainty, softhanded character that has tailoring and alchemy.

    EQN is supposed to be a game, maybe a hobby, not an entire second life I have to delve into to maintain.

    Thanks for all your work so far guys. I'm really happy and excited to see the development of Landmark and Next.
    • Up x 1
  15. Xenith New Member

    Oh how I disagree with these other poll'ers. Don't people realize that if everyone can learn every crafting profession it'll kill supply and demand and the economy? If you can make everything and get everything, no one would need to buy anything.
    • Up x 3
  16. Pecerbus New Member

    This is a tough one.

    If crafting is going to be a major part of this game then it should be limited per character. With everyone being able to craft everything, it takes away from social interaction to a degree. What if crafting was account based? Say you pick alchemy and herbalism then you create an alt. That alt is also bound to being an alchemist and herbalist. This would ultimately force me to have to interact with people if I wanted something outside the realm of my own abilities and would help create a better player based economy.

    If you can create everything, then there is no need to interact with any other crafting players. Specializing and becoming the best at your trade, to me will help create this player interaction.

    Do not get me wrong I like being able to do everything and get everything. It is the cdo in me (that's ocd), but being able to get everything does limit the mmo portion of the mmorpg that this game is.
    • Up x 1
  17. Bard Member

    I've yet to see a good reason to not allow people to learn every tradeskill. What I wouldn't mind seeing though is a system that only allows you to reach Grand Mastery over a given tradeskill once you've spent a specific amount of time (as well as effort) working on that skill.

    For example: Let's say you can reach Mastery of any (or all Skills) by just making stuff over and over. For Grand Mastery there would be a timer for each tradeskill and that timer turns on the moment you start working (brewing, fishing, whatever) and ends the moment it stops. The timer would keep track of total time and once someone achieved 100 REAL TIME hours working at a skill, they would get Grand Mastery over it (and whatever bonuses that would entail).

    A setup like this gives players the ability to work hard and Master all skills (which should take at least a year) while also allowing those with exceptional dedication to reach Grand Master status. My experience tells me that for every 1,000 folks that tradeskill, maybe about 50 will Master all of the skills (if possible). Of those, only about 3 would go for Grand Mastery.
    • Up x 1
  18. Janglebones New Member

    I chose No, but felt I should elaborate in better detail - I think it'd be neat to limit people similar to the way you have upkeep on a property. If you don't use the skill you lose the skill, the more you use the skill the better you become. that way it gives you the option of choosing any of the trades, but also forces you to interact with other players to utilize their trades if you don't want to spend the time maintaining the upkeep of that specific trade because you have another you're maintaining already etc. o_O
    • Up x 1
  19. MarceloMax New Member

    Tottaly agree with you.
  20. rabb1t Active Member

    Again, requiring someone to make alts will have zero impact on this. It just forces them to log in with a different character before doing so.
    • Up x 1
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