How would you like to group up?

Discussion in 'News, Announcements, and Dev Discussions' started by Dexella, Nov 27, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AzureBard New Member

    Well, aside from making the interface pretty obvious (or doing something obnoxious like forcing you to fill it out) I'm not sure what you expect. We can't whine about a lack of community when it's the players themselves who refuse to participate in a community. I think the above suggestion provides the convenience of a group finder while giving players the tools to create a community and long term friends (things which happened before, but were clunky and had to be done in LFG etc.) If a player doesn't want to take advantage of a chance to avoid bad players and group up with friends, I don't know what to tell you. At the least the system will favor people you've grouped with before, so that's more community continuity than you would get with someone randomly spamming LFG.

    Also, as a side note. Anyone who thinks that spamming LFG for 30 minutes gives you a deeper sense of community is being overly nostalgic (in my opinion). No communication is required beyond that initial spam and having someone add you to a random group picked out of that stream of spam. The only community you might get is that you're forced to memorize some random person's name because they've been spamming chat for 30 minutes. That's not really my idea of community. A group finder, if done well, can cut away all of that annoyance, and give you a chance to focus on actually talking to your new-found group while you play.
    • Up x 1
  2. Gerret Member

    Does this mean there is going to be "instances" and content that resembles a "Zelda" type dungeon? because that is an absolute deal breaker... The whole random group, instant port to a dungeon, run it in under 20min, grind that out several times for gear and xp, and doing the same process in different dungeons on up the ladder is AWFUL. Its like playing Super Mario but you have to beat every level 20 times before you can move on to the next.

    As for an LFG system, I think you should keep it very basic. Just like a simple LFG message board. You can post yourself LFG and write some short description. All people LFG can be put into categories by roll. Then as a person looking to start a group I can look through the "tank" pool of LFG people and invite someone, and so on. This way it keeps grouping organic and personal. In MMOs I play, 90% of the time, my random group never even says one word to each other.

    I liked way way back in EQ when you actually had to FIND a group and when you went to do some content someone might already be there and you had to fight over it. Dont give up "community" in an attempt to give the game a more "autopilot" feel.
    • Up x 11
  3. Mekada New Member

    Somehow, I don't think the lack of community in games like WoW is due to match-making systems. If you want to bring back the community you have to slow down the game so people can take the time to chat and get to know each other.

    I voted that I'd like a match-maker, but I'd like that system to be server specific so the bonds you create can last.
    • Up x 2
  4. Talathion Well-Known Member

    Or ... we could walk to the dungeon.. find people outside and .. /gasp group up and talk to eachother...

    Wild concept I know.
    • Up x 7
  5. Sir Francis Member

    I thought that there would not be the traditional "dungeon raid" as well.
    • Up x 3
  6. Aldus New Member

    I think there should be instanced zones that scale in difficulty based on your group/raid size. Maybe same mobs or different/additional mobs with more hp/mana, spells, weapons, skills, or even better group AI tactics as you increase numbers and even pay attention to classes opposing them to scale the difficulty of the encounters. Maybe make mobs realize what classes face them and change tactics in seemingly unpredictable ways. Keeping it fairly simple for a solo player and increasing in difficulty as you increase group/raid sizes.
  7. Chaorx New Member

    If you invest something in getting a group, then you run the risk of loosing it if the group fails.

    This is the single most important fact to consider when designing an easy to use grouping mechanism. With no investment, there is nothing to loose, and more players will behave badly, leave with no care, run with the best loot and all that is bad.

    Many games have solved this with technical solutions. Thats how things are. Easy groups, equal drops for everybody, new group members are teleported to the location, no death penalty that require help. All in all, MMO's are designed for individualists, not for social players who take care of one another.

    This is an important reason why social relations in the first generation MMO's were strong, while they are very weak in the most of the latest generations.

    Groups should be made by players talking to one another. Risk some prestige by asking, travel to the group activity and give it a go.

    But look at the other mechanics that used to rely on the kindness or help of your fellow players. By removing the role of everybody else, you are building for individualism. If Everquest Next is a game for groups, dont design mechanics for individuals.

    I voted 1, as I think it is the only option that will promote good social behavior in the groups. I dont think it should be an option to do group content without caring for your fellow players. If the modern MMO player don't know how to do it, I think we should teach them. The result will be stronger social bonds, and that is what will keep the players in EQN for the longest time!
    • Up x 7
  8. Apocalypsebunny Well-Known Member

    I prefer pre formed groups with a LFG system that players can actually respect and not flood with random B.S. Was never a fan of group finders, they server their purpose for casual players so they should be there, but they take the fun out of the dungeons and turn them more into speed runs or mindless grinds instead of actually feeling like a group. But like I said, they have their place. Plus since nobody will ever truly respect the concept of channels in a game and will use General Chats for LFG, and LFG for trades, and Trade channels for the latest Hollywood gossip (was it a tree or a light post? How big is her butt after the baby? Blah blah blah mindless blah) then we sorta need a silly Group Finder for the ADHD lack of focus in gaming.

    Still voted for pre-made groups, I really hate the STEP ONE: FILL OUT YOUR GROUP NEEDS; STEP TWO: LOCK INTO GROUP FINDER; STEP THREE WARP TO YOUR DESTINATION AND SPEED GRIND; STEP FOUR: GO RIGHT BACK TO WHERE YOU WERE AND CONTINUE YOUR DAY; RINSE AND REPEAT.
  9. Fingers New Member

    Sounds nice in theory but my problem with it is if we're talking about people who are naturally inclined to ignore others and race through dungeons as quickly as possible, I can't honestly see them taking the time to score and review you.

    Also sounds like a system that could be abused:

    (1) Group with friends and have them give you shining scores/reviews to bump up your score
    (2) Has potential for griefing: given some of the awful behaviour I've seen in LFGs, ranging from complete impatience to out and out spitefulness, I wouldn't put it past some to give poor scores/ratings, just for a laugh.

    And your definition of a good or friendly player might be different to mine. I recall once being in an LFR where two players indulged in a long winded dialogue of racist behaviour and general bad manners and they subsequently labeled the rest of the group boring and unfriendly because we didn't find it amusing, and asked them to stop. The point I'm making is good and friendly are subjective - with such a system I might've found myself on the receiving end of bad press, despite being a decent group member.
  10. Talathion Well-Known Member

    Can I have help on a quest.. ?

    "You have been removed from the group."
  11. Zuric Member

    I usually group with folks in a guild i have been a part of for 14 years.

    Why not have a page of groups looking for party members. Have an easy to read list of what these groups are looking for what they plan to do and for how long. Then folks who are looking for a group just need to look down the list and find one which suits them. If there are no groups a player finds suitable start one up and folks will look down the list and if your doing something folks are interested in i am sure folks will join up.

    This would cut down on folks shouting LFG hours on end. All they need to do is look for existing groups which need players and if there are none start one up.
  12. Faith316 Member

    I chose option 2, to complete small group content with preformed groups or get randomly matched with other players. I chose this because having an LFG tool makes it faster to get in groups, and cuts down on the need to spam chat channels or stand in a "city" area to find a group, whichever way chat is going to work.

    However, there are a few things I would look for in an LFG tool:

    #1. No teleports to the dungeon or small group area. You should be in the area, or be able to get to the area in a reasonable amount of time. Teleporting to the group area takes away the feel of a living breathing world.
    --If your character hasn't yet found the instance area, you should not be able to get into a random group

    #2. There should definitely be a way to block player from being randomly matched to you if you have problems with that player.

    #3. Hopefully the content will be difficult enough that communication will be a must even with randomly matched groups. When you can go into an instance and never speak to the people you are grouped with then something is broke.

    #4. Rewards, if any, should be given to pre-formed groups, not the other way around. Since we don't have to worry about filling certain roles, an lfg-type tool should work better to get groups formed quicker but shouldn't be the norm. Putting your own group together should always be the better option.

    #5. An LFG tool should take into account user preferences or content needs, as option 3 suggests. I should be able to set whether I just want boss kills or am looking to explore or complete "quests" or whatever the other choices may be. There is nothing worse than going into an instance in a random group where not only will people not talk but they flat out refuse to do more than speed kill through the instance, especially if you are trying to get a quest done.

  13. Thrasymachus77 New Member

    Matchmaker systems address a real problem that exists for modern MMOs, and in the process create or exacerbate several more. That real problem is the growing number of "casual" players who don't have an in-game social network from which they can draw on groupmates, and who don't want to gamble their playing time on a LFG chat channel or traditional PUG setup. These players are hindered in trying to complete group content without a matchmaker tool.

    The problems matchmaker systems create and exacerbate have already been well described by others. Matchmade groupmates have no incentive to "play nice" with one another because a matchmaker system removes consequences for bad behavior. They create a work-around for players who lack an in-game social network, but don't encourage those players to form such a social network or give them the tools to easily do it. The focus becomes the mere completion of content, instead of having the content be the vehicle by which social connections are made and reinforced.

    I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and eschew a matchmaker system, however. I'd rather see these systems modified so that the matchmaker system can help address the underlying problem, the existence of a sizable population of players who lack an in-game social network. Matchmaker systems should introduce new potential social connections, and reinforce existing ones. They should be able to work in tandem with more traditional grouping systems, so if you've got a friend you want to group with, and you need a couple more players to round out your group, you two can group and then use the matchmaker system to fill in the rest. And they should not allow players to escape the consequences of their bad behavior.

    I would suggest a simple thumbs-up/thumbs-down ranking system for group mates, no matter how the group is formed, along about 3 or 4 dimensions of group play, such as friendliness/helpfulness/competence/etc. After being grouped for a certain amount of time and a certain amount of group activities have been accomplished (killing a mob together/crafting a thingy together/whatever), you can rate your groupmates. To prevent ratings abuse, prevent characters from rating other characters they've already rated more often than once a week. When joining the matchmaking system, allow players to set thresholds on those dimensions that will prevent other players below those thresholds from being matched with them. This will return at least some of the consequence to poor behavior in matchmade groups.

    To encourage the formation of social connections, a matchmaker system should strongly prefer to match players together that have already been matched together, and who've rated each other well. The simple repetition of always finding yourself "randomly" matched with the same people you've been matched with before will go a long way towards forging the social connections that players matchmaker systems are designed to serve lack.

    Matchmaker systems have made the problem they were meant to solve, the social isolation of players, worse by solving for a symptom of the problem; the difficulty in getting groups. But there is nothing inherent in a matchmaker system that requires that this be the case.
    • Up x 2
  14. wealden New Member

    I miss the old eq of forming groups, I would suggest to encourage this why not have a grp bonus ability the more you grp the more you can benefit the grp ie you give a 0 to 10% bonus to your abilities while in a grp,
    • Up x 2
  15. Riven New Member

    This game is all about the 'Next" big MMO, right? about doing new things, and setting new standards.

    What if you could rate your groupmates after a set amount of time of playing with them? What if you got matched based on your ratings and those with similar ratings?

    It would be great to have game wide (every server) access to creating groups for small group dungeons or or 12 person raids (any larger and rating people would get cumbersum)

    What if players were held accountable for their actions and competence and friendliness during adventures?
    --
    I've been playing alot more League of Legends, that is what got me thinking about this.

    I would love for people to rate my 1-5 (on a quick bubble card) on my:
    -Friendliness
    -Team Play
    -Scale: 1=HardCore -> 5=Casual
    -Scale: 1=Object Oriented -> 5=wants to enjoy the text, and scenery
    -Competence - overall
    -Communication & Attentiveness
    --Class/Role Specific ratings
    ---What role did I fill (this could show how frequently someone plays as Tank VS DPS)
    ---How well did I do my job

    Options To Report players who:
    -Disconnect from groups (if it happens once or twice won't matter compared to a long record)
    -People who Rage Quit
    -Who are Rude/Harass others
    -Troll the group by intentionally messing up (Leroy Jenkins)


    These types of systems are becoming more used in order to group players of like mindedness together. This would make my game play sessions much more fun.

    I would want the option to fill as many spots in my group with people I know, then have the system match any gaps based on the ratings we've received in past adventures.

    I've been at these MMO's since EQ1, and the most frustrating part of MMO's is 1) Taking forever to assemble a group to tackle content. 2) once you have a group assembled, finding out that someone in the group doesn't mix well.

    Have the system first try to pair people of similar ratings, and only when none are available then reach into other ratings.

    Imagine having a Gold, Silver, or Bronze adventurer status.. another form of competition and motivation.

    I hope the above makes sense, because if you can make where if I'm a GOLD rated player and can avoid being grouped with Bronze. that would be great. Gold could losing their rating through bad play, and bronze could improve.
    • Up x 3
  16. Shayye New Member

    I definately want the option of being able to choose how to complete the dungeon. Random matchups really arent bad, but we frequently have a designated "group night" where we play with real life friends, that say are not in our guild. Or there have been occasions where we run new players through content with seasoned officers to get a feel for how they play, what their skill level is, how they would fit into our guild, ect.

    If random grouping is something the game wanted to push a little harder, perhaps offering a small exp bonus for a random group? Or even an xp bonus of a certain number in the full group were taken from the random generator? We have used this system before, and it has great potential for finding new guild recruits as well.

    The random group matchmaker also gives a great option for those players on the server, that play at non-peak times. Nothing sadder than logging in during a non-peak time and NO ONE is on to play with.. We used to call it Tradeskill hour, because thats all anyone was doing.
  17. Riven New Member

    I am glad to see your post, we were replying at the same time and very similar ideas. I hope they go in this direction.
  18. Chaorx New Member

    Very good points. Both of them.
    The trick with grouping mechanics is to make them detrimental if abused. I believe that if more mechanics of the game are social, and based on trust, then most players will be social and trustworthy. But if all mechanics are designed for the individualists, then you will get a world of individualists, who are greedy and untrustworthy.

    Players will play by the values the rules promote.
    Make those values virtues, and you will get a strong community!
    • Up x 1
  19. Shayye New Member

    definately true. You always run the risk of people power-leveling and farming gear when being able to design their own groups. Its unfortunate. I cant forsee any way of being able to prevent this.. only to make it more difficult for those that do. Such as making certain dungeons a mandatory group class set-up.. or mandatory random.. I just hate to see the game completely eliminate the ability to group with friends. These MMos are social outlet games. They have to be able to offer the option to group with friends. Otherwise what is there to talk about at work?? LOL
  20. Maulstorm New Member

    I was hoping EQN would be a sandbox game where every single decision isn't entirely based on what appeals to the masses. Too bad I was sorely mistaken. These polls need to be a little more directed at their target audience as opposed to just anyone with a keyboard.

    For instance no design decisions should be influenced by people that do nothing but play Candy Crush, Scarlet Blade or Free Realms.
    • Up x 2
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page