Contested content: yea or nay?

I think this question is two-fold, as it should take into account both end-game raid content as well as group content available for all levels.

With regards to end-game raid content I, personally, think that the days of purely contested content like we had in EQ1 are long gone, simply because of the number of people now playing on any given server (not to mention the drama, hassle and other social consequences that tag along as well).

Sure, in EQ1 is was viable to have one or two guilds per server essentially keeping all end-game content locked down for themselves, since there weren't so many people playing the game and, of those that were, a lot were not interested in dedicating the amount of time it took to take down raid targets -- lets not forget, those were 72-man raids that took a good hour or two just to set up, given wait times, the lack of easy group adjustment tools, etc etc.

In this day that simply would not work. Plus it would be unfair to people to have content limited to them. It's one thing to have a fight be so hard that only the most dedicated can reap the rewards of beating it, and completely different adding an extra bottleneck like contested content.

Now, with regards to group content (i.e. dungeons), I would actually like to see more, a lot more, contested content there. Especially given how the EQNext world has been presented in the panels, with the players being able to "dig down" to find new challenges, all that should be contested and not instanced. I WANT to be able to fall down a hole someone else dug up and crawl through the deep caverns searching for danger, and I WANT to meet other players, strangers or not, down there.

Sure, instanced dungeons are fine too as they add a level of convenience for someone who doesn't feel like going on an exploration expedition, but that shouldn't be where all the goodies are. Open-world should offer the same quality of loot as instanced dungeons.


D.

have a feeling it could be a combination of the 2 from crafting good gear but raided gear is better. Or you can get gear and upgrade it to raid gear. Maybe they will allow raid gear to also be upgrade all through crafting.

I made a blog post about this a while back. http://chaotikgaming.com/eqnext-instanced-or-contested

Me personally... I'm 30 now, job, wife, kid, his sports and activities.. I simply don't have 15 hours to sit one weekend trying to complete something. Instanced content allows my group / guild the opportunity to schedule activities and complete them when we have the time.

Plus with today's MMO player volume, maturity level and instant gratification requests, a game with all contested content would not work. You think a server with like 15000 people would be able to rotate and share Naggy spawns? It would never work.

Like I also said on the facebook post, remember in WoW days when it would take hours just to get a group for a dungeon crawl? Now imagine that same setup but no instanced dungeons... would you ever get in one? would the dungeons or raids be camped and owned by higher level or bigger guilds / groups?

Players would quit left and right. Thankfully we will have rallying calls so there shouldn't ever be an issue with FINDING content to do, but for dungeons / raids... instance is the only option.

I don't mind contested personally but "kill stealing" is definitely still an issue. At least in EQ2. Not sure really how this could be resolved. Maybe take a % of crit (if it exists in EQ Next) on the player attacking the mob and if said player is too ridiculously high then the mob doesn't aggro / isn't attack-able. Either way, you get the idea... Thoughts?

I agree - it is a very delicate balancing act. Games that, for lack of a better descriptor, hand everything to the player base alienates the hardcore crowd, and the opposite is true for the casuals.

That said, I find the wording of this Round Table question to be overly vague. Are they talking about PvP content? PvE? Both? Areas we fight over that have access to rare materials, or have some as-yet-to-be-detailed meta-reward? Mobs that have to be camped/public dungeons/etc (and if so, would there be different ruleset servers that place boundaries on how "open" these would be to mass carnage/ganking/griefing/etc)?

It just strikes me as odd that they would pose a question such as this, especially one worded as such, when all their answers to date regarding PvP (which the question as worded leads one to infer is the underlying topic) have been, "Oh, we're not ready to discuss that yet."

Agreed, I don't want to go back to EQ1 where there are 10 enchanters all up in the Plane of Sky waiting for that STUPID bag to pop on the table. This bag was on a 24 hour timer, so realistically, it would only take 10 days.... 10 days where you couldn't play your enchanter, because you were too busy sitting up in the sky.

I also wouldn't want everything to be instanced and personal loot. GW2 did it to where all loot is your own, and it was great at first, but then you slowly figured out why you weren't making any money.

I like contested dungeons, but I don't want every single dungeon to be contested. For example, Kunark's Castle could be contested, while Venril Sathir's tomb is instanced, etc. Much like EQ2 did it. If there's a huge story element to a dungeon, then let it be instanced, but if it's just the courtyard or just some orc dungeon, keep it open.

Always should be a balance for players of all skill levels,makes the game interesting for everyone.

A way to fix it is first person to damage the mob or engage it.

This is what happens when content is not contested:

1. The content's value decreases
2. Lower sense of achievement when experiencing the content
3. The content gets consumed at high rate, leading to shorter game longevity
4. There is less interaction in the community

What? No, that doesn't make any sense. Also that's not what contested content has ever stood for. Most of those options don't make any sense at all for PvP. They mean contested as in old school world raid bosses, guilds competing to get to them, leap frogging people, guilds having spies in other guilds to know when they're trying for it, camping people near there to see when they're up, rushing to be guild firsts, open world dungeons and raid 'zones' instead of instanced content and such. Personally, I voted for a good mix of both. I want to see instanced raids, bosses and such, and I want plenty of contested content, too. I want it to be a battle to get to that mob first. *shrug* I would prefer non-instancing in general, really. The more open world, the better. Especially if it inspires competitiveness.

Do what they do in other games. The first person to tag it gets the mobs and or based on a contribution system that allows any and all players that participate to get loot, not fighting for it, but automatically distributes certain list of items for anyone that reaches the requirements.

Get enough mobs and a large enough area and adding these don't present much of an issue really.

I really dont feel that people understand the question.
It seems some think they are voting for PvP, some think they are voting for loot etc

Everything should be contested, contested content builds character and variety and adds a social aspect to the game you don't get anymore. All the games these days have made everything instanced, taking away that social aspect, and now everything is instanced, there is no more danger in most games.

A lot of these posters probably never played EQ1/SWG/EQ2 back in the day when almost everything was contested.

Please don't take the votes too seriously this time, I want EQNext to be special and unique.

((Also, please don't do shared loot, I don't want some guy doing 1 damage to get the same reward, kill stealing and all that was just part of the game. If you don't want that then make friends.))

*The only thing that shouldn't be contested... is the tutorial!*

Some things should be contested, but you should be able to advance without having to fight for every scrap of everything.

Everything on its own table is not fun. On the other hand, someone rolling "need" just because they CAN, isn't fun, either.

While on the topic, though. Do make the zones scary.

In EQ1, you had the Hill Giants in East Commonlands. In MC, you have creepers or endermen.

A lot of people will whine that these things make it "too hard" but the truth is that it immerses you more completely into the world. When danger actually lurks, you must pay attention. When you can be knocked flying while building, it immerses you. Danger might be scary, but it's valuable.

So instead of only contested areas or trying to force PVP, please give us a sense of danger that we can escape by paying attention or by hiding (like from creepers or skeletons).

Contested Content = Waiting around for stuff to happen.

Isn't that what EQN is trying to avoid?

I actually quit chain questing in EQ2 for awhile, because contested rare mobs for quest chains were being camped to the point of frustration.

I out-leveled many great quest chains in the 20's-60's because I didn't want to wait around for stuff to happen.

I would like to see contested content, but I want to see it slightly different. I would like to see the conflict be between factions as opposed to say guilds (or groups etc). In fact I really wish Rally Calls could take on the faction form of contested content. I see this mention of many factions and they should have a purpose. Every faction should have its own goals (to obtain power, control a newly built city etc). That's something which can be done in PvE as contested content and transition over to PvP content as well.

Of course then you need factions based on your actions (like everything else seems to be) and not your race. Thus everyone could end up in the faction they want and not be left out of their guild etc

Most contested content I've run into either is simply two guilds trying to tag a mob first or in the case of non locked encounters... trying to train the group which had the mob locked down so that they die and free up the "content". While that would still be possible at least factions give it a supposed purpose...

Did you play EQI at higher levels? All of those were -deeply- contested. By individual people, by groups, by whole guilds. Some servers had waiting lists, even.

I ask myself "What would my EQ1 experience have been like had it not been for the contested content (public dungeons, raid content). I only have to look at what happened after Planes of Power, when instancing started to become the norm, and it coincided with me quitting the game. It's just not the same. I don't want a game to hold my hand. I want to be challenged. Not just in skill, but also in the politics and drama.

All, and I mean ALL, of my memorable moments involved contested content in some shape or form. Whether it was doing a dungeon crawl in Sebillis, trying to get a cleric his Ragefire piece or racing through NTOV to try to get to Vulak first.

Out of all the round table discussions, this is the one that I am passionate about (other than a seriously enforced ban on data mining), and cannot compromise. It will make or break whether I play the game.

I don't expect my view will be echoed by a majority, but it is what it is. A compromise for developers may be a Hardcore server, which would mimic EQ1 rules as much as possible.

What happens when content is conested:

1. Massive drama and related problems

2. Guilds crumble over above problems

3. The sense of achievement to rush to a mob isn't a personal achievement or any type of achievement. Its OMG MY GUILD IS ON AT X TIME! Being early isn't an achievement. Beating the content is the achievement. Not when you or your guild can get to it before others based on time. First kills are great. Good achievement. After that, whooptydoo.

4. The community as a whole suffers due to 1/2 and the fights between the guilds running after stuff spills over onto the community as a whole and you have those not even in the guild hating those guilds

5. 90% of the community loses out on parts of the game for months/years because people can "achieve" having more people on at 10am than other guilds.

6. Games end up going instanced due to the drama and being able to sell to the most people.


I am as nostalgic as the next person but i would rather not miss out on the game because Guild Hilarious can get people on to wipe out content before i even wake up.

This is coming from a person there for the first AoW kill before they made it hilariously easy. Great achievement to kill it first, but having to rush to it to beat other guilds.. not any type of achievement.

I like having the overworld play area contested, but dungons I only like instance. In EQ2 the last few exspantions have been good about giving us instances to play in with groups and that is something I would like to see make its way to next as well. I hate once you get a group together then go to run a dungon and your group has trouble finding a place to play so wonder around without mobs to kill looking for a spot you can claim. Just seems to be more fun for me and my friends to go in play and not have to worry about anyone else, just us.