ZW Raid DPS, Lets see Parses.

Jello or Pudding? or just Jello-Pudding?
Message Edited by Bamfa_dexter on 12-23-2006 12:20 PM

I am a warlock, 95% of warlocks think parces I post are fake. 5% know how to play the class. Where necro's 75% do great DPS. As a warlock I have to not stop cast as well as be perfect with my timings to break 1.4k single target DPS. And my DPS is highly dependent on groups. Necro's on the other hand are alot less dependent on groups and offer Above average utility.
So don't brag about your DPS or your lifeburn nerf will occur sooner then you want. And when it does get nerfed don't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and complain you know its coming.

Lol, I'll bite, I guess.

Imo, lifeburn wont get nerfed at all, same as manaburn. The simple reason is that some mobs have been designed for those spells to be used.

Just my 2cents.. Ive used Lifeburn now and the Ooze pet. I have to say, that while
lifeburn is nice, its not all everyone makes it out to be. The necro ends up with 1hp
regardless of the # of heals (even if your getting healed during the 10secs it runs, the
spell just keeps going until the 10secs are up, the mobs dead, or the necro is at 1hp.)
The damage the spell does is split out over 1sec ticks. I didnt bother to figure out the
math of it, but it appeared to be something close to 1/5th max health * 5 every second.
(*note* that means without a heal, the spell lasts at most 5seconds.)

Ive also heard some say, well a necro has FD and others dont. They make FD tinkering
items now, so FD is not the exclusive province of necro's anymore. Ive seen a fair # of
healers carrying them, just so they can rez after a wipe.

As to necro dps vs others, Im really sick to death of people complaining about their class
not being equal to others. The classes, by default will never be equal. The only thing people
should be concerned with is doing the best within their own class. ie. necro vs necro. If your
a necro and another necro is out dps'ng you on parses, then fix yourself. If your a necro and
a wizzy is out dpsing you, then delete you necro and be a wizzy. Don't whine about it, and
yes complaining about another class being better is nothing more than whining. SOE will
never make them equal, if you don't like it, either leave the game or go play the other class.

Wow.. you wizards suck. I retired my necro and made a troub to help the wizard in our guild. The necro (who also sits in my group) rarely beats him at 2200 dps (average) Master damage spells, master assassin pet/pet buffs and life burn. (Wizard is at 2400 dps average, no manaburn).

Hehe. Sometimes I turn off my hate reducer when he uses lifeburn. Brings a smile to my face.

For saying lifeburn is the same as manaburn is crap. Without mana a wizzard is 0 DPS. You can heal life you can't heal mana.
Basicaly what you just told me is you play your class perfectly and deserve to be top DPS because of it. So either you are telign me your guilds T1 DPS class's are unskilled. And your the best player in it. Or your class is broken and should be knocked down to where it was before lifeburn.

Then go yell at SOE to fix your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] class instead of perpetuating the problem by trying to justify the nerfing of another class you have no interest in playing.

wizzy this wizzy that waaah waaah.
As for you cant heal mana : dracomancer, glove honor of pantrilla, shard, heart, manastone and you are back to over 30% mana and ready to keep on casting. not to mention x'haviz gown of glory that proc mana regen + your regular FT gear and the various procing mana stuff around.
i m tired of seeing people that barely know how to play their class complain that other class are doing better than them.
On my berserker i get called for doing too much DPS for my tanking abilities, on my necro i m doing too much DPS for such an easy to play class.

So it's pretty much agreed then that all you wizards and warlocks complaining in our forum area need to go out and learn how to appropriately gear up and play your class before you actually can cry about ours. And from what I've seen the number of actual good necros is more like 18% at most.

The countless idjits I see that complain about not winning some FT or regen item when an easily obtainable proc item would far outwiegh that 1 or 2. Or the ones who still use the prismatic wand at lvl 70. Or who think any other robe other than relic or xhaviz gown of glory (sp?) is a better choice :smileyindifferent:

I'm saying any T1/T2 Class if played properly are situationally T1 DPS.

As for you thinking Lifeburn makes or breaks the Necromancer, hell, take it away from me, I don't need it to beat you, a cocky warlock who spends more time complaining then he does learning how to better himself.

As for the way Lifeburn works.
Lifeburn stays on you like a maintained spell until the 10second duration is up, after the 10seconds is up, the recast timer on the spell starts. It consumes 10% health for 10seconds, if you run out of health, it will wait until you have more than 1hp, and start consuming again. It deals 5points of damage for every health point it consumes, so if your @ 9% health and can only go down to 1hp it will consume every point in between, leaving you with one, and dealing 5x Disease points of damage per every HP consumed. Not too hard, is it? .

I'd just like to add a little correction on ow LB works you made a little mistake
Lifeburn can be limited by four things :
1 : Can't do more than 60% of target max HP
2 : Can't do anymore damage if you're at about 1HP left
3 : Can't consume more than 20% (yes 20%) of you HP pool per tick
4 : Can't do more than 10 ticks

LB do 5 pts of damage for each hp consumed.

So ... basically, if you're not limited by condition 1 (raid mob by example) and if you have healers on your back ... you'll do 10 * <your max hit points> * 5 / 5 = 10 * <your max hit points>
if you haven't any healer on your back and don't heal yourself it will tick 5 times only => 5 * <your max hit points>

example : you're at 10kHP, you can potentially do 100kHP (with healers and assuming you're not getting aggroed ^^).

If you think I'm wrong I can post parses, but I think it will again be wrong for the class to do so

let's go back to raid wide dps discussion

"BIZOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUXXX"

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Necrobisounours 70 Storms (french attitude ^^)

yuppers. and that appears to be what this thread devolved into. at least one *necro* (shame on you) stating that lifeburn should be nerfed and then the worn-out arguments of who should and shouldn't be T1 dps.

You were right. While I'm beyond the point of class bickering, and fingerpointing, it appears there are still forum members with class envy.
In my eyes, conj/necro's were made t1 dps a long time ago SOE just never posted a revised class balance chart to include it. You guys bickering about necro dps can deny it all you want even deny it to yourself but that is the truth, its how its been for nearly a year now. And obviously if soe felt summoners were doing too much damage you guys would have been nerfed to hell a long time ago like rangers were. So lets just accept summoners as a t1 dps class and move on mmm k?
Message Edited by IllusiveThoughts on 12-29-2006 12:17 PM

You know they may lynch you for this :smileyvery-happy: but it is fact, we're just tired of drudging it up. Those class dps tiers were never an official thing, just something people try and hold onto to cry over no matter if the dev who posted them said they weren't legit.

Actually it was official, and AFAIK it was never retracted. What one of the devs did say (moorgard?) was that he wished he had never posted them because people were misconstruing what he said.
Regardless, even if summoners have been doing T1 dps for a while your going to have a hard time selling it to other T1 classes that lack their utility. Obviously IT is correct though - if the devs didn't like where summoners were they would have changed it by now.

I still dont get this whole utility argument.
1) Roll a tinkerer - way overpowered atm
2) People point to my utility in groups - I point to their burst dps in groups (I struggle to get over 800 dps in groups, my best is around 900 - 920 zone wde for obelisk / crypt). If there is a sorc and a rogue in the group then I might as well just auto attack with the pet and afk - stuff will be dead long before Ive had chance to make much of an impact.
3) People point to my utility in raids. What utility? I can FD, just like every single other toon now. I can res, just like every single other toon now. I can heal.... for 1.2k every 12 secs if I chain cast (this is perhaps the only situational utility that we have, as I can remember saving an x2 raid once when healers were stunned / knocked back, tower of stone rocks....) I have stat debuffs for int sta wis and whatever else drawing souls debuffs. These are not important as mobs are easily fully debuffed in these areas and it seems to have little impact anyways. I can pet pull, completley shafting my dps for the fight and surveil is a better choice anyways... Oh I have a small debuff for disease / poison damage too. Great.
Its an old argument made by lazy people.

Sulpeel wrote:

) People point to my utility in raids. What utility? I can FD, just like every single other toon now. I can res, just like every single other toon now. I can heal.... for 1.2k every 12 secs if I chain cast (this is perhaps the only situational utility that we have, as I can remember saving an x2 raid once when healers were stunned / knocked back, tower of stone rocks....) I have stat debuffs for int sta wis and whatever else drawing souls debuffs. These are not important as mobs are easily fully debuffed in these areas and it seems to have little impact anyways. I can pet pull, completley shafting my dps for the fight and surveil is a better choice anyways... Oh I have a small debuff for disease / poison damage too. Great.

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Well being able to rez is one of the biggest things for us on a raid, as healers should never be rezzing people to start with, before other classes who can do, especially as they should be concentrating on keeping the mt up not rezzing some over nuking/week resisting players. Ruinous heart in a raid where mobs burning players power or its a long fight is very much needed, as all players should be using there hearts non stop, not just using them when they get low on power, if used as soon as up and spam the necro for another, the makes a big diff to the outcome of any long fight. The heal spells we have is a great help,displace life and even soothing soul, there has been many times i have contributed to healing a mt or even an ot that has kept them up in fight where a little bit more healing was neede. Fd lol with lifeburn its a defo major one, u cast it then next click u hit fd, tank dont lose aggro (self explantory really)

Onto our some of our other utility spells. Alot of the drawing of souls line are great, unstoppable sould on a the mt just after he is bolstered for instance on a major named (m1 increases max health of target by 16% and increases mit against all physical by 416) then there is flayered soul same as other except its max power, and increases ranged/slashing/disruption/piercing/ordination and subjucation by 25. Abominable mark and drawing of souls are both very good debuff spells, saying that they dont make a diff is really naive, what if everyone else thought the same? Now we have access to the ooze crawler debuff pet, that makes one hell of a utility, necros are'nt all about dps/dps/dps.

Why would pet pulling affect your dps on a raid fight, try using call of servant as soon as mob been engaged, most times i find that using tank pet in def will take the intial [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] from epic and its only when its been running back that that its been nuked etc from mob and dies. if using cos then isnt really an issue.If its a long pull then engaging mob and once engaged instantly recasting another pet whille the mobs are on the way, wont affect you either.

Necros are vastly improved with utility now any who think they are not, really need to go back to the faq at top of this forum and start again, or if its just about dps, then become a wizz/war who really arent that great on utilty and more concentrated on dps.

P.s, sorry to derail thread from what it was about, just get annoyed when people say we aint utility
Message Edited by Brightstrider on 12-30-2006 06:34 AM

Hehe no worries matey - this is more interesting than this crappy thread anyways (rar trolls...)
Im not a huge fan of our res, I can't think of another that gets you on your feet with less power / hp. When raiding we have our dirge or pally do the res dance (dirge seems to enjoy it more than dpsing, and she loves getting us naked...) But fair enough if those 2 have been busy, or there is no res evident in about 3 secs ill send one. Ive gone for lifeburn / ooze crawler AA build so I dont have any spare points to make my res a bit better.
As far as the stat debuffs go I am not discounting the importance of them in general, but with brig sk defiler doing their thing I have never really noticed the difference. If it is a pretty vicious caster mob then I make a point of keeping the int debuff up, and wis helps all our casters but I never see either having much of an effect zonewide. Of course the ooze crawler takes us down a different route and is a huge debuff to land on a mob - and we rightly have to sacrifice pet dps for such a cool spell.
And pet pulling, well I'll acept that I may be a little unlucky (or just crap) here, but it seems to me that if you pull the pet back (presuming it doesnt get one shotted, animists bond??) then you are going to move the target mob while it is still aggro to your pet. If the encounter then runs past a social mob doing a combat art / spell you are going to get adds. And also shouted at because of course its the necros fault and not the game mechanics that made it happen.... Now that they fixed the god pets we have to spend 10ish secs recasting our pet / pet stance which is a long time for a dps class to stand around not dpsing.
Again, im not saying that we have no utility. Im just saying that the argument of 'we have less raid utility, we must do more raid dps' is now (and has always been, in my view) fundamentally flawed.

For the pet pulling part, you should'nt be pulling if mobs are social anyway, it should be the ranger thats doing that anyways, thats why they got the skill to avoid that. As for the rez parts, as a necro you should be the first on the list who is rezzing, if you working with the dirge, u should be deciding between you both who is rezzing first (saves time on clicking and attempting to cast, even if u let them know before hand, its a waste of a click) palas should no way be rezzng straight off in my eyes, they are tanks after all, they should be involved far more with helping the mt/healers, stuff the casters/scouts (i dont mind seeing the pala dying anyways they are after all the infidels )

Those that think we are a pure dps class (yes it was stated necros are t1 dps along time ago, check the back chats on this topic) are either not necros or necros who have'nt got a clue, any raiding necro who purely turns up to a raid to try to be top on dps tree, really needs to learn what a, team work is all about, and more importantly what our class is all about, we are so much more versatile than that, and the funniest part of this all is, dont people realise that as a class when the devs created us/added to us they realised this (contradicting something i said about devs not having a clue a whille ago, until now btw) we can be top dps on a raid, we can solo better than any class (imo) and we can debuff now like no other fu%*er with our new pet, tell me we are just a one track pony, and i will show you elvis working in a chip shop in peckam who's going by the name of mandy (oh plz, that was sarcasm for those noobs who feel clever enough to say it)

The days of just button bashing are over for our class imo, if u want that, then people, there is plenty of "track n field" style games out there u can do this with, so you can then ache like a sore (enter what i thinking here) till your hearts content.

Who cares what we are parsing, maybe start thinking about what your guild is killing and whether you actually helping, not just about how big your "richard" is on the dps tree, there is no "i" in team after all (yes there is in "vin diesel" and alot of other names before some other smart arses say it btw ).

Message Edited by Brightstrider on 12-30-2006 06:56 PM