Zlandicar's Heart Mage reward feedback

Discussion in 'Quests and Seasonal Events' started by Montag, Mar 21, 2014.

  1. Estred Well-Known Member

    Most likely they are remains of back before Wands were introduced, sometime during DoV I feel was when that happened. Previously a Symbol was just a thing you held for buffs/stats and nothing more.

    Darkon has a point too since Channelers cannot use Wands because they use Bows.
  2. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Because there are some fights where you're forced to go ranged.
    It's no different from fights and non-ranger scouts having a bow. It is isn't used very often, but it has it's place. A focus item for those who use 2-handers (or melee with sword and board) is the same a bow for fighters/scouts. It's usually just for the stats, but there are times when you need to hit things at range or you simply have to stay ranged and the bow/focus item lets you get some auto-attack in.
  3. Ucala Well-Known Member

    eh not really, a bow drops from ToV boss, which Darkon has agreed that the rewards were to fill the gap in the itemization (which they were).
    so since a channeler bow already drops...well...and then there is the myth bow.
    I can't name any fights where you are "forced" to range. some might be better, but I would always go in and melee anyway. even nowadays when I do use a wand to range I am usually pretty close enough to melee anyway (old habits) and most classes have to be close anyway for some moves (wizzies needs to, warlock needs to, conj needs to. I would bet necro as well)

    well if you did raid you could get a good 1h and then the symbol would be usable, doing a mob much easier then this HQ requires.

    people keep acting like they are right or something, but no, as said before and will say it again, it's to fill the itemization gaps of the ToV boss. that is why it's a symbol and it's not really gonna change since it's there to fill a gap. It doesn't matter if you can't find a use for it or not, it's there because it wasn't there.
    Estred likes this.
  4. Koko Well-Known Member

    I can! Zlandicar. ^~

    Seriously though. How often do scouts ***** about the cost of arrows? All the time. How often does a scout want to shoot arrows? Almost never. How many arrows are used during a raid? A lot, a really big number, you could count I suppose... its a consumable and it'd be really easy to do, only... Everyone already knows ranged attacks are used all the time.
    This is a stupid argument. People should stop making it.

    If symbols are, as many have pointed out to 'fill a gap in itemization' and the item is not desired, the itemization itself is flawed. There is a reason symbols are not desired and that reason is they suck. They are inferior to a shield with a 1h weapon. They are inferior to a focus ranged with a 2h weapon. Change itemization to a shield and a focus ranged and remove symbols, because they suck.
    Kraeref and Mermut like this.
  5. Ucala Well-Known Member

    eh, it's not desired so far mostly by people that aren't doing Zlandicar in the first place, which is why they don't want the symbol, because they can't get the other weapons. That's their whole basis on their side of the argument. the whole (most guilds can't do Zlan, so we shouldn't be getting some lame symbol) it's a pretty weak argument in itself.
    I for one love the symbol, since I can have the Zlandicar 1h, and the Zlan focus wand, but I would have to use some crappy symbol as a placement for my 1h set, but not anymore. Now I can have a complete 1h set with a symbol
    Neiloch likes this.
  6. Koko Well-Known Member

    Or it is because symbols suck. Here is another example:
    Templar avoidance share severely suffers or they no longer have access to ranged damage.

    You won't win this.
  7. Darkon Well-Known Member

    Koko, the symbol is fixing a gap in ZLANDICAR's itemization.

    Zlandicar does not drop the following things which are used often ->

    symbol
    tank shield
    second scout sword
    secondary brawler weapon

    This quest fills those gaps.

    The symbol is useful.

    You have a 1h/symbol/wand for 'purely' ranged fights (maybe 3% of total encounters)

    Then you wear a 2h/symbol for everything else.

    Refusing to do so is simply sloth on your part.
  8. Darkon Well-Known Member

    The truth of the matter is a symbol is actually a vastly better quest reward than any other option.

    I'll illustrate the reasons for those of you who are having problems seeing why this reward needs to be a symbol.

    If it's a wand it's useless because there's already a wand from Zlandicar.

    Channelers can't use wands, so again, another reason it can't be a wand.

    If it's a shield, then everyone who uses a 2h weapon can't wear it.

    If it's a 1h weapon, then again everyone who wears a 2h can't wear it.

    There is only one item that fits all playstyles, although it doesn't fit all playstyles simultaneously. Said item is a symbol.

    The SoE team is smart enough to know this, and therefore created the reward as a symbol.
    Estred and Neiloch like this.
  9. Mermut Well-Known Member

    Why should I use a symbol (with equal or inferior stats) rather then a focus item? If the symbol is vastly superior, perhaps, but other then that getting a second war rune and swapping simply isn't worth it.
  10. Darkon Well-Known Member

    If it's inferior you wont use it, but you wouldn't use it regardless of what slot it goes in if it's inferior to what you're already wearing. That's fairly obvious. You don't equip downgrades.
  11. Ucala Well-Known Member

    lol no you won't win this, cause you have no idea what you are even saying, Darkon explained it nicely to you.
    if a templar needs a shield for their AA, use a shield. but your HQ wasn't gonna give a shield since it's mage/priest pair, and mages can't use shields, but priests can use symbols.
    the items were to fix the itemization gaps, most people are saying they don't like the symbol cause they want a 2h or a wand, but you get both of those if you kill Zlan, then they say they aren't killing zlan and shouldn't be punished like this. Well bro that's the whole reason this HQ exists in the first place. you can't use 1 example as a majority of your basis of it being "bad"

    You can dance around the subject all you want with your "shields are better for healers, etc etc" stuff, but truth is a symbol was the best fit for the itemization, so a symbol is what we got.

    I don't see how others fail to see it, I knew the min I heard it was a "raid HQ" with the name zlan it is that it was to fix the itemization and could have guessed the rewards
    Neiloch likes this.
  12. Koko Well-Known Member

    Priest shields are commonly used by clerics for the avoidance share, currently the best in slot is from heroic. They are completely missing from a raid loot table, let alone Zlandicar's.
    Symbols are useful for mages with 1h weapons, but only because they cannot equip superior options.

    Before I answer your final point, please clarify:
    1. Are you suggesting that I, and every other caster present, forgo DKP and farm Zlandicar 3+ times per character (2h, 1h, ranged) more than any other in the game in addition to farming rune patterns out of raid or be considered "sloth"?
    or
    2. That I already have obtained these items and refuse to min/max this aspect of the game despite writing multiple documents, spreadsheets, and other materials that do nothing but present how to min/max this game?

    Please respond so I may reply appropriately.
    Daalilama likes this.
  13. Darkon Well-Known Member

    Every single class currently has 2 drops they need from Zlandicar.

    Tanks need primary/ranged

    Mages need primary/ranged

    Scouts need primary/ranged

    Priests need primary/ranged

    There are two playstyles for priests and mages.

    The two playstyles are melee, and ranged.

    If melee, you'll use a 2h in your primary/secondary, and a symbol in your ranged.

    If ranged, you'll use a 1h/symbol, and a wand in your ranged.

    Either situation involved a symbol. Sure, in the 2h setup you could substitute a wand, and in the 1h setup you could substitute a shield, but the only item that is viable in BOTH builds is a symbol. It's the clearly logical choice for the reward.

    You asking if you're supposed to get 3 items from Zlandicar so that you can benefit from 2 different playstyles is akin to a tank asking if SoE really expects them to get a 1h/shield/sword AND a 2h weapon(3 from Zlandicar, one from the quest) if they want to have two different playstyles available to them. (tanking & dps)
    Daalilama and Neiloch like this.
  14. Koko Well-Known Member

    In which the cleric opts for a heroic gear over the gear from the end content mob. This is a problem. This is why I, and many other players here, are not satisfied with the "loot table" argument. It is illogical. -edit- Also the symbol sucks in both builds, as in worse than heroic gear sucks.
    Ranged*? To confirm, this is your argument?
  15. vexa New Member

    Why can't this heritage quest just offer a larger variety of rewards that would benefit more play styles instead of giving us rewards that don't suit us. Yes zlandicar drops items we can bid on in raid but It's nicer to have a reward from a long quest benefit everyone in how they play the game. Isin't this what it is really about? Rewards from a quest everyone can make use of and be happy about? BTW I use a wand and a 2h. It allows me to switch to any attack depending on the situation without having to constantly think about swapping between my 1h/shield/wand or 1h/symbol/wand. or 2h/symbol. And a valid point was made. If there are no mobs that melee need to range on then why do melee scouts go through so many damn arrows in a raid? IDK.

    Looking back over the heritage quests in the past I'm seeing how many of them have rewards that aren't useful to many - so this quest is just one of those. For me anyways.
    Kraeref likes this.
  16. Ucala Well-Known Member

    what you are asking has Never been the case for Hqs in general.
    Training as a shield didn't give a reward usable for mages, scouts...
    everyone should really be happy with these rewards though cause they are actually good and what the majority of people needed (that can clear ToV). if anything, scouts should be the ones mad since they only have a 4s to choose from.

    I wouldn't really call it valid point about the arrows. when I raided on my bard, I didn't really every stock up on arrows, cause there is almost no point. I think to this day he still has 0 arrows.
    that might have been the case when MA/flurry/AE auto consumed extra arrows, but ehh
  17. Darkon Well-Known Member

    I haven't used 3 full stacks of arrows since the inception of ToV.

    Sure you could wear a 2h/wand full time, but there's no reason to. Only one will be used in any given situation.
  18. Sylke Well-Known Member

    The thing about symbols for secondary slot is...

    If we assume that the raid upgrade for the HQ symbol will have the same CB/Potency as the Consumer weapons (22.4%), the only reasons to use a 1h+Symbol setup over a 2h setup are if you plan to use a 2/2 setup of CB/Potency whites and for extra reforging. If you don't need or want the extra reforging and plan to use only a single type of white adorns, you get higher CB and Potency by using a 2-hander.
    (This assumes that all items are of the same tier, etc. PK weapons, for example, are outliers)

    Not that this really helps the discussion at hand...
  19. Daalilama Well-Known Member

    Would be nice to see a healer shield with block on it out of raid (might be one there haven't seen one drop with it if so RNG devil is at work there) but yeah the small selection for whatever reason granted as a reward for this HQ is poorly thoughtout.
  20. Luperza Community Manager

    Hi there!

    I changed the title of this thread as it was quite disrespectful, but I like what this thread is trying to accomplish. Please, keep your titles in mind when you are creating posts. If you want Dev interaction, it is the first thing one looks at before clicking the link. If it's disrespectful, they won't click on it and rightfully so.

    Now! Onto the good stuff, let's wrangle in this feedback and make it a bit more productive! Some of you are already doing a great job at this, but I want to make sure this doesn't stray off topic. :)

    If you feel that Zlandicar's Heart Mage Reward is not worth the time it takes to attain it, please provide ways that you think it could be improved to make it more useful and worth the time and effort.
    Koko likes this.