One more thought to chew on. As of right now, fighters stack in a group to a fairly efficient means. Meaning, if you have two fighter types in a group, that's ok, as they still bring some dps to the table. Once this change comes into place, all groups will be strictly one tank groups. Thus, our grouping ability will drop dramatically! Any experienced group worth their weight in salt isn't going to want a second tank in the group. It would be counter productive. I've already seen some tanks bailing from the class due to this, if not the game altogether. :smileysad: Bjoern
Yeah and I'm not going to stand for that! After our dmg gets nerfed, raids will take 2gaurds, DPS will simply go to the group 1/2 classes. Sure our buffs are good, but a 50% haste isnt better then having another DPS all together. I dont see what is so wrong with our damage now that people are [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing for a nerf!
For all those complaining about their DPS getting nerfed etc, and how they didn't sign up for this. Heres what I would like to say. When you started your EQ character did you want to go toe to toe with the mobs and dish out the pain face to face? If you answered yes, congratulations your a fighter. When you reached level 10 did you want to use heavy armor and weapons to fight your foes? if you answered yes, congratulations your a warrior When you reached level 20 did you decide that you wanted to be more of an instinctive, violent, and reckless fighter? if you said yes, congratulations you are a Berserker. If any of your answers have changed since then, reevaluate your answers and decide which class now suits what you want to do. if you want to dodge hits and strike from behind, be a scout. if you want to be a hunter and a stalker, be a predator. if you want to live in happy happy Qeynos land, be a ranger, if you want to live in a darker more militant environment be an assassin. This is not a flame post or a "stop whining" post, When making a character most people play to get to their end result, in this case they play to be a berserker, perhaps that wasn't what you really wanted to be and you just didn't know it.
Actually, my answers were yes, yes and yes. And at the time, as it currently is, the zerks can stand toe to toe and dish out the pain...and that is what differentiated us from the other tanks. But when they reduce our dps, they'll be removing an intergal part of our class and the reason I chose this class in the first place. Yes, I'll still be able to stand toe to toe. And yes, I'll be able to stick em in the eye. But instead of sticking them a claymore, it'll feel like I'm sticking them with a whiffle bat. Totally defeats the purpose of this class and the core idea beneath the entire thing. And if you look at our skill list, the vast majority of our skills are geared toward dps. So, when the nerf comes, unlike other classes, a larger portion of our skills will be impacted. Thus, I feel, while all classes are getting a restructure, the zerk will be getting hit the most. Just mho. Bjoern
Did you guys read the manual before you picked your class? I was SOOOO surprised when I was out parsing every other class because zerkers are SUPPOSED to be the second tank next to Guardian. The sub-class a zerker is in is the WARRIOR class. Heavy plate-armor, front-of-the-line, leads into battle. If that description doesn't scream tank what does? Just becuase it says "offensive buffs" doesn't mean you are going to be in the top tier DPS category. I'm surprised it took this long to nerf zerker damge. BTW... I am a 50 zerker on Guk.
Well, if we want to compare notes from manuals, in the official guide, it gives the following description: Beserkers are chaotic warriors who inflict heavy damage with all manner of weapons. Their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents, whom they show no mercy. If that doesn't scream dps, I don't know what does. Thus, I did do my research, and I did pick the class that suits me best. And now they're breaking it. :smileysad: Bjoern
Everyone of you that is complaining needs to chill out and wait for the changes to go live and see what really happens.
all this wait til the changes go live stuff is crap. so im suppose to not say anything and let them nerf the hell outta my class? are you crazy? really! the bottom line is changes will most likely hit test 1st and we will see or hear from testers exactly what is going down wit the nerfs/changes, whatever you wanna call em. in the end if you dont complain now and let your voice be heard we will all take it in the rear then it will be too late. no mmo especially sony ever nerfs the crap out of a class then turns around and hears complaints and says ok you right lets throw em a bone. ive never seen a nerf over turned and its unlikely to start now.
The same crap has been repeated after every perceived Berserker nerf, which in fact every berserker nerf so far has been a correction to a skill that was not working as intended or was indeed overpowered in certain situations. Yes, I do play a berserker and I have since release. Every time SOE goes to change something before it ever hits test people are crying about how it will affect them when in fact they have no clue whatsoever about how it will affect them. Test server? No, I salute those folks for testing content before it hits my live server but they are horidly understaffed to fully test something of this magnatude, its full effect will not be seen until it goes live. We may get a feel for the changes fom test, but will you know how they affect you on a raid vs level 57+ mobs? Bottom line is you can piss & moan all you want but your not going to find anything out until it goes live, unless you play on test and even then you are only going to get a small piece of the picture.
Bottom line is they are screwing everyone who spent money and time to build what they advertised... SoE told us many months ago we would be this (see below) and now they want us to hit just above the Priest class?? What would SoE do to us if we didn't pay the same amount we agreed to many months ago? ... you guessed it, they would drop us like dirt!! First group: Wizard/Warlock Assassin/Ranger Second group: Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet) Brigand/Swashbuckler Third group: Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet) Troubador/Dirge Bruiser/Monk Fourth group: Berserker/Shadowknight Paladin/Guardian Fifth group: Fury/Warden Defiler/Mystic Inquisitor/Templar
Sony should just make things like they were in the beginning. In the beginning Guardians were the only ones that could wear the vanguard armor ..why..cause they were guardians. Berzerkers could not wear vanguard armor but did way more damage...pallys could not wear vanguard but they could heal themselves and cast damage spells. When they allowed all warrior classes to wear vanguard armor they took away the balance aspect of the classes. IMHO
Ya...lets just wait and see how it ends up on the test server and pray it doesn't end up like SWG, otherwise they'll have to to condense severs just to make the game playable..lol
Tank? I wouldn't call a berzerker a tank. Aside from monks, we're the worst tanks of the entire fighter archtype.
I'm sorry, but this is a game breaker for me. I never signed on to be a guardian. I signed on to be a "Chaotic warrior who deals heavy damage". In order to do the high dmg we sacrifice a ton of hitpoints/defense using multiple zerks. We use dps to hold agro. We inflate our "dps" numbers when doing AE's. Against a single target our dps is not aweinspiring. I grouped in Permafrost the other night with a brawler that absolutely blew my DPS away.. AND he tanked better than me. How can they justify this change? I played my toon to level 50 only to drop to a dps level just above healers??? [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is going on here? Warden, Templar, Mystic, and Conjuror all went through the Arena Solo instance and won it 1st try. I have tried 2 tiems and the best I've gotten the champ too is 50%. I even tried grouping with a lower level guy to lower the avg level of the mobs to 48 and the champ equal con and still only got him to 50%.... How the hell am I gunna beat this dude with my dps nerfed even more????? Guardians are raid tanks. Zerkers are DPS tanks. Take away our DPS and we are nothing. SOE pull your head out before you lose a ton of loyal customers. Buff the dps of chanters and scouts and leave the tanks alone. If anything... remove our ability to use shields since we are supposed to be offensive tanks not defensive tanks. Make us go 2h or dual wield. That alone would take 800+ mitigation away from us... What about all the adept 3's and Master 1's we spent cash on? We getting reimbursed when they change our spell lines and screw over our abilities or what??? I want some answers... Message Edited by Jvaloth on 07-03-2005 10:48 PM
im sorry but are u on crack were the 2nd best tanks in the game and when they fix guardian stacking issues we will be on par going defensive as a guardian going offensive or vice versa
Very well put Jvaloth! My point exactly! But, I'd be surprised if a moderator is even reading this thread yet, more or less being able to do anything to stop the huge cogs of change. But we can wish, eh? Bjoern
WELL SAID!! Don't do it SoE, this is not your usual "we are gonna leave" crowd. I've been with you for over 5 years and I’ve seen hundreds of changes. But if you take us to just above priests in DPS I will walk with both my accounts. And before some scout, guardian, or mage tells me not to let the door hit me in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] on my way out.... don't worry, I'll be gone so fast it wont have a chance! Message Edited by Wrathcaster on 07-05-2005 07:49 AM
Can I just chip in here with some thoughts from a lvl 47 Ranger. What exactly is it that you lot see as the role of a zerker? Is it purely a DPS role with no tanking? Is it plain tanking ability? Is it a mixture of the both, depending on the decsions you make? No offence but it seems a LOT of you want the best of both worlds, you want to be able to do DPS like a high end DPS class and yet be able to tank a LOT better than any of the classes who's role is dedicated to that DPS role. If that is the case, then why dont SoE get rid of ALL of your defence buffs, get rid of the armor and make you lot wear light armor? Is that what people want? I have a question, what would you lot say the role of a Ranger/Assasin is. As a class what skills should one of these classes bring to a group? Here's a breakdown of what I currently bring for the group. 1. Tracking - Is this of any use at all? Have you ever been on a raid and heard anyone say 'get a ranger/assasin we need tracking'?. The fact is with so many maps out there and spoilers tracking is a worthless skill. 2. Pathfinding - Sounds amazing in theory, wow lets boost the speed of the entire party. Problem is everyone is running around with J-Boots and horses,and with SoW stacking, there's no use at all to this. Again, anyone ever been in a group where someone has asked to 'get a ranger/assasin we need pathfinding'? 3. Evac - A great skill and very useful, no complaints from me here, but do people pick Rangers/Assasins based on evac? Also we are not the only class who gets this. With that in mind the Ranger/Assasins are left with DPS to fall back on. This in my opinion is where the system fails. Speaking as a Ranger I have seen Monks/Bruisers/Zerkers and even some very well kitted out Paladins out dps me. I know for sure that there is NO WAY I can ever tank even close to any of those classes, so why should these classes be equal or in some terms better at a supposedly secondary skill for them than a primary skill for Rangers/Assasins? I cant see what the problem is, when the combat changes hit you will be doing more dmg than a guardian and will be able to tank better than a monk/brusier. If you choose you want to do more dmg still, you will have choices in terms of skills/weapons to increase that dmg but in term sacrafice some tanking ability, which will still be better than ANY scout. I know for sure that I as a Ranger I never expect to be able to tank a mob, why should I? When I play I look for a tank to play with, when the combat changes come I will still do the same.
